• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

First time breeding, Deep horn, and using sperm from late stallion...help please!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • First time breeding, Deep horn, and using sperm from late stallion...help please!

    This is somewhat complicated but I'll try to keep it short and understandable....
    I lost my stallion December 15, 2010 due to complications from an inguinal hernia surgery. Luckily, right before he passed (as in, 30 minutes before) they were able to harvest his testicle (I believe thats the right way to say it) and get some 'happy juice'. Supposedly you are lucky if you get even one dose, I was able to get 2 1/2 doses from my boy It has been recommended to use deep horn insemination so I would therefore have 6 - 7 doses. The semen analysis says 47% normal sperm, post thaw I believe averages at 50%.
    I have finally found "the chosen one" and I am taking her to the NC State equine health center for a breeding exam middle of march to make sure she will work. The mare has had 2 babies in the past, 11 years old, really beautiful mare. My stallion already has several babies on the ground, so I know he was capable of it.
    My question is, does anyone have any experience w/ this kind of situation? I know it is quite rare, but some good stories would really help. I'm so scared that the mare will not get pregnant at all, and the one thing that has been keeping me going since his death is the thought of having a baby to continue his legacy
    Or any experience w/ deep horn insemination. Advice as to the best feed for broodmares, supplements, etc. Again, it's my first experience w/ breeding and I want to make sure to do everything right!
    Thanks for your help! Good luck to everyone breeding this year!
    "This inauguration feels like the first date with a really great guy after an eight-year dysfunctional relationship with a loser who spent all my money."

  • #2
    My biggest piece of advice for anyone using any frozen semen is to find someone who is very experienced in breeding with frozen. We only do deep horn insemination when using frozen, but make sure you ask the person doing the breeding if they are familiar with it.
    It is a great idea to do a pre-breeding work-up on the mare; it should definitely include a culture w/cytology and a uterine biopsy.
    Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

    Comment


    • #3
      Immunal supposedly helps mare fertility prior to breeding them.

      I don't know much about deep horn insemination but good luck!!
      Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        The procedure will be done at NC State's Equine Health Center in Southern Pines. My stallion was in ICU at the hospital for a month, so I figured it would come full circle if his baby was born due to the work done at NC State.
        "This inauguration feels like the first date with a really great guy after an eight-year dysfunctional relationship with a loser who spent all my money."

        Comment


        • #5
          Pregnancy rates don't decrease until below 100 million progressive sperm, so in your situation, I would probably try a pretty small dose the first time if your straws are small enough to accommodate that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Phew, I dont know what to say but good luck , my stomach would be in knots about getting a pregnancy!
            www.windhorsefrm.org and on Facebook too!
            Where mares rule and Basset Hounds drool!

            Comment


            • #7
              My advice? Run AWAY from NC State Equine Health Center!

              3 mares:
              Mare number one, very experienced broodmare, always caught first time, 11 years old, 3 tries with (one frozen, two fresh) and no pregnancy.
              Mare number two, maiden 6 year old. Two tries with fresh, no pregnancy.
              Mare number three, 10 year old with two prior foals, both conceived first try. Three tries fresh, no pregnancy. Also ended up with a lot of complications because of stuff the vets and students messed up.

              Tried different stallions, all with good motility, and one with extremely good motility and pregnancy rate. Spent countless dollars on tests and treatments for the mare who was messed up by the school.

              Next year with a new vet:
              Mares one and three caught the first time, mare number two was not leased again.

              Next year with another vet:
              Same story. One and three caught on the first try, and one with a stallion with low fertility.

              And this year, you guessed it! Everyone caught first try with no trouble whatsoever!

              Plus, the stallion was hurt on the phantom through no fault on his own. Even the people supervising were like "Oh, yeah, whoops. Shoulda caught that. The bill will be X amount"

              Barb Seigel is good, and I've heard good things about Fernando Cardenas. But I will never, ever recommend NC State for any breeding ever again.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Coppers Mom - Where would you recommend? I'm in southeastern VA. I have had nothing but awesome experience w/ NC State on several occasions, but its my first time doing any breeding w/ them. Do you know what vets were used (you can PM me). Thank you for the advice!
                "This inauguration feels like the first date with a really great guy after an eight-year dysfunctional relationship with a loser who spent all my money."

                Comment


                • #9
                  The best vet for frozen semen in VIrginia is Dr DelVento at Apex Equine. A bit of a drive for you, but worth it for important, limited semen.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I love State for everything else. For example, last year my friends had a mare who had a massive, malpresented foal. The vets there were awesome, and I'm positive they saved her life on several occasions. Afterwards, the farrier (sorry, can't spell his name) worked wonders on her feet to keep her from having any further complications. But for breeding, it was an absolute disaster, and I know a couple people have had the same problem. I don't know if it's that they're not sure, if they're unorganized, or if they don't have enough mares for the students to practice on, but I would never use them for breeding again.

                    Are you going to have her bred in VA? Or NC? Because I'm really only familiar with NC repro vets.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      I'm open to going anywhere within a reasonable distance, and 'reasonable' for me is more than most b/c it is such an important breeding for me. I will check out Dr. Delvento, thank you for the reference. NC State is about 3 1/2-4 hours for me.
                      "This inauguration feels like the first date with a really great guy after an eight-year dysfunctional relationship with a loser who spent all my money."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        With that few sperm cells, you might want to consider more advanced techniques such as ICSI , where only 1 sperm is put into an ovum.....
                        http://www.cngsporthorses.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I dont know the vets where you live, but as far as I am concerned the only vets I will use for breeding are the ones who do deep horn. You need to get real repro vets, therios. Make sure they do deep horn and do it well. Often times they will have lots of cow experience before they started on horses, since repro technology there is way ahead of horses. They will be the ones that have lots of ET expertise as well.

                          Your numbers are fine.
                          I have given my poor vet 15%, even 10% semen and have babies to show for it, on not even full doses, but using deep horn, and perfect timing with U/S.

                          Are you too far from Ocala? Dr Miller is great.
                          LIKE us on Facebook!
                          https://www.facebook.com/matchmakerequine
                          http://www.matchmakerequine.com

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            What is ICSI? I tend to be a very 'involved' horse owner (I actually moved into the Ramada for a month while my stallion was in the ICU) so I like to discuss everything w/ the vets. Fortunately (or unfortunately) I was able to get to know them quite well while there. They are all therios. I am a good 10 hours from ocala, if not more, so definitely not an option.

                            It would be nice to hear from someone who collected a stallion via testicle harvesting before the stallion died, and to know the breeding results. But again, I appreciate the advice it's giving me a lot of hope!
                            "This inauguration feels like the first date with a really great guy after an eight-year dysfunctional relationship with a loser who spent all my money."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Popularity View Post
                              What is ICSI? I tend to be a very 'involved' horse owner (I actually moved into the Ramada for a month while my stallion was in the ICU) so I like to discuss everything w/ the vets. Fortunately (or unfortunately) I was able to get to know them quite well while there. They are all therios. I am a good 10 hours from ocala, if not more, so definitely not an option.

                              It would be nice to hear from someone who collected a stallion via testicle harvesting before the stallion died, and to know the breeding results. But again, I appreciate the advice it's giving me a lot of hope!
                              We have collected semen from harvested testicles, not before death, but because of castrating. The trick is to not contaminate the semen with blood while you are trying to extract it from the epididymis. If the numbers you reported above are accurate, then obviously the semen wasn't contaminated and the numbers do sound quite good. For that point on the semen is no different from any other frozen; how it was collected isn't going to affect the breeding. All of the stallions that we have collected epididymal semen on for freezing have gone on to successfully settle mares.

                              I'm not familiar with NC State, but the main thing with a teaching institution is to verify who will actually be managing and breeding the mare. There are often very good and talented veterinarians working at universities, but sometimes they aren't the ones who will be doing the work; students have to learn somehow. That is the first thing I would verify. The second is how they will monitor the mare (should be around the clock, w/ ultrasounds every 6 hours). I was recently shocked to find out that one of the top therios in the country, at a major university that is at the forefront of equine reproduction does not ultrasound mares overnight for frozen semen breedings. So I would definitely verify how the mare will be managed.
                              Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
                              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Popularity View Post
                                What is ICSI?
                                http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/bms/erl/erl_icsiserv.htm

                                Colorado State does it, and New Bolton in PA as well.
                                www.sauconycreeksporthorses.com
                                Dedicated to breeding Friesian Sporthorses
                                with world class pedigrees and sport suitability

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by jdeboer01 View Post
                                  http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/bms/erl/erl_icsiserv.htm

                                  Colorado State does it, and New Bolton in PA as well.
                                  Equine Medical Services in Missouri offers it too.
                                  Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
                                  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

                                  Comment

                                  Working...
                                  X