Buying for color

[RiddleMeThis]

Depends what your purpose for owning it is. If I had a horse that was that gifted and made all my riding ambitions come true it would be perfect even if it were purple. And I do have color preferances..but come on!

It was a joke Donella.

[okggo]

It really doesn't matter to me.

I love greys, that steel dark dapply variety, if only there were a way to keep that color! I don't care for the Rose greys (the pink looking color).

I think any color, in its peak of glory, shiny and dapply is beautiful. I remember a plain dark bay stallion listed on CANTER PA one time who just gleamed and he didn't have one ounce of white on him.

I had a liver chestnut mare who could be anywhere from blah furry reddish, to dapply shiny purple black, to even buckskin looking during the summer sunbleached months.

I guess my only non-preference would be the white faced paints (Overos?) with the pink skin.

[krfarms]

Color never really entered into my mind until I looked out in the pasture one day and EVERYTHING looked the same. Black/Brown with a little white!! I bred one of my mares to a pinto WB just to see If I could change the dynamics in the herd!! Funny thing is when I first take a youngster "out into the world" if there are greys they seem scared to death!!!

[RiverOaksFarm]

color AND quality

I definitely think color is important to alot of people. I don't think many people buy just for color, but color can be the deciding factor between two otherwise very similar horses.

I think it is exciting that there are starting to be so many choices for color AND quality.

[work4horse]

colour freak here!

A few years ago didn't really care about colour. Then I had a pinto filly born a few years ago and I had to put her to sleep at 9 days old, absolutely broke my heart. She was so beautiful with her pinto markings and I am was not even a big fan of the pinto colours.

At the same time I discovered Silverwood farms as I had been checking out my filly's bloodlines and her relations (Art Deco was her uncle). So when I lost her and my mare didn't re-catch I felt REALLY cheated that I wouldn't have my baby (I had bred for my next performance mount).

So in my misery I went around looking at everyone else's foals and how happy they were and that I wouldn't have a foal to celebrate so I went out and purchased an in-utero foal that was due the next year.

First time I ever did something like that. It was a Sempatico foal due, and darn it I wanted colour and I wanted a filly. In a way I can say I was replacing my filly in my mind even though I knew it would be a different horse altogether.

Well I got my filly and in teh end the colour is icing on the cake. She is a stunning filly in both temperament (so loving but a princess no less), and movement. She was a gold premium at her inspection and I got a really good deal in teh end. Marie at Lazy J Sporthorses did a marvelous job raising her and having a quality mare pop this filly out. She is definetly a keeper for me no matter how many people ask if she is for sale. I want to one day breed this one to Briar for a fantastic dressage type movement horse. She just loves to show off and her movement just always catches my breath.

Then there is my Maxamillion filly who I will confess I fell in love with her buckskin coat and white markings. I just admired her and let me confess I truly thought Tawna King was not going to part with her. But this filly has movement and a wonderful work ethic to back up that colour. Again I got a beautiful/great horse with extra splash to catch the eye.

I wouldn't buy for colour alone but if it is on a great horse, hey I am on that boat. I think it is another ace in teh hole on teh part of teh horse and breeder. I love my colourful girls and one day I plan on breeding to some great stallions (not based on colour but achievement/confirmation ect). if the foals come out with colour then someone else can ride a wonderful coloured dream horse.

[quietann]

I don't care about color, but I ended up with a Palomino anyway. I have to say that people tend not to see past the "pretty" to the really gorgeous horse underneath.

http://annsrats.com/horses/feronia/LoafSep06_t7sm.jpg

(I might, however, avoid grays because of the melanoma issue.)

[goodpony]

I also own and breed Connemara Ponies and currently have Grey, Bay, Buckskin, Brown and Black. I do not care for the Cremellos or Red Roans (don't mind some bay and black roans) and would likely not be interested in adding either one to our program nor do we breed for color. Though every year I hope for a flaming red chesnut with flaxen and chrome or a palomino! I think there is some advantages to certain colors....some photograph much better than others. The hardest color for me to capture is the very black and very dark grey!

[okggo]

I just want to chime in on the grey issue that has been brought up (a.k.a. not buying grey b/c of melanomas).

The Equine Veterinary Journal published the results of a study that was done on the malignancy of melanomas in grey vs non-grey equines.

The study found that melanomas in gray horses are less malignant than those found in solid-colored horses. Researchers think that grays have specific genetic factors that inhibit the metastatic processes to some degree. Also, the researchers found that the heritability of melanomas in a gray horse population is about 30%.

Research also shows a higher percentage of melanomas in grays (some indicate up to 70%), but this is a positive finding in the sense that most tend to be under the tail and non-cancerous vs those found in non-gray colors having a higher likelihood of malignancy.

[Signature]

I think as a breeder looking to provide a product so to speak for the market, you have to consider color at least a little. In our experience, bay colts sell the most quickly. Chestnut seems to be the least favorite and admittedly our least favorite. Of course, there are always people looking for a specific color and it just could be chestnut! To each their own! We had buyers once that specifically wanted a chestnut filly (and it just so happens that was the only chestnut we ever had!). Do we kind of try not to get a chestnut, admittedly yes, but if it happens, the quality is such that it does not matter. It is strictly for market desirability. A good horse is a good horse. I, too, think color is definitely a deciding factor between two foals of equal quality. It is simply human nature to pick the one you think is prettier!

Would I avoid breeding two chestnut horses that were fabulous ONLY because I am guaranteed a chestnut? No. Again, a good horse is still a good horse. If I could breed to equally good stallions but with one being guaranteed to throw bay or black, and one likely resulting in chestnut, I would breed to the one most likely to produce bay/black, all else being equal (of course it never is).

But, there definitely is some difference in the quickness with which a trendy colored foal will sell over an equal quality but less desirably colored foal.

[vxf111]

okggo I totally understand where you're coming from, but so you know where I'm coming from-- 2 of the 3 saddest melanoma cases I knew were the totally benign type.

One poor mare developed a large melanoma right where the saddle would sit, on her barrel. Benign. It grew and grew until it was bleeding because of rubs from blankets and tack. The owners spared no expense and tried everything. The mare was really uncomfortable, all the time and would try to rip at the melenomas with her teeth and/or rub the area raw on the fenceline/tree bark. The owners stopped riding her entirely but the melanomas continued to grow and it was a constant fight trying to get her not to tear her sides open. She then began to develop the melanomas around her anus and did the same thing-- rubbing them raw. You couldn't even look at this mare, she was so miserable and always bleeding from her sides and her anus. She was euthanized, because there was nothing to do for her and she was suffering. It was heartbreaking.

Less painful but even more disturbing-- a mare at a former barn was COVERED with melanomas on her legs (mostly near joints). At first, the vets would come freeze/cut them off but when they occured, they tended to grow back more aggressively and multiply. They were HUGE and greatly affected the mare's movement. It is no exaggeration to say that a few of them were SOCCER BALL SIZE and hung off her legs by flaps of skin. It was DISTURBING. The mare had to be hidden at times when children came to the barn because it was UPSETTING. I would have thought for sure she'd be euthanized by now (I boarded at the same place as her over 4 years ago). I went back a year ago to visit and she's still there covered with growths. She was only ever a trail horse, I assume they don't ride her now. She's not in pain but she can't be comfortable either.

I know these are extreme cases but there are some things that stay with you and these stay with me. Everytime I see a gray, a small part of me remembers these two mares.

[okggo]

okggo I totally understand where you're coming from, but so you know where I'm coming from-- 2 of the 3 saddest melanoma cases I knew were the totally benign type.

One poor mare developed a large melanoma right where the saddle would sit, on her barrel. Benign. It grew and grew until it was bleeding because of rubs from blankets and tack. The owners spared no expense and tried everything. The mare was really uncomfortable, all the time and would try to rip at the melenomas with her teeth and/or rub the area raw on the fenceline/tree bark. The owners stopped riding her entirely but the melanomas continued to grow and it was a constant fight trying to get her not to tear her sides open. She then began to develop the melanomas around her anus and did the same thing-- rubbing them raw. You couldn't even look at this mare, she was so miserable and always bleeding from her sides and her anus. She was euthanized, because there was nothing to do for her and she was suffering. It was heartbreaking.

Less painful but even more disturbing-- a mare at a former barn was COVERED with melanomas on her legs (mostly near joints). At first, the vets would come freeze/cut them off but when they occured, they tended to grow back more aggressively and multiply. They were HUGE and greatly affected the mare's movement. It is no exaggeration to say that a few of them were SOCCER BALL SIZE and hung off her legs by flaps of skin. It was DISTURBING. The mare had to be hidden at times when children came to the barn because it was UPSETTING. I would have thought for sure she'd be euthanized by now (I boarded at the same place as her over 4 years ago). I went back a year ago to visit and she's still there covered with growths. She was only ever a trail horse, I assume they don't ride her now. She's not in pain but she can't be comfortable either.

I know these are extreme cases but there are some things that stay with you and these stay with me. Everytime I see a gray, a small part of me remembers these two mares.

That is so sad

As a lover and breeder of a breed that is predominantly grey, I try to keep the more positive spin on the color. But I know the stories exist, and the reality is there.

On the flip side, I know sarcoids are more common in pink skin areas, so max sabinos, cremellos, champagne horses are more prone to those. We had a champagne gelding with one on his leg, thankfully small. So there are risks with any color horse, from color related (think burnt noses from sun, or scratches on white legs) to just the very nature of horses being accident prone. So it saddens me a bit when I see people who refuse to buy greys b/c of the risk of melanomas, if there would be no other reason to turn the horse down. But your opinion is based on scenarios that would probably make me think twice as well, if I had to live that.

[vxf111]

It was horrible. I was just thankful that neither mare was a horse of mine.

[incahoots]

Maybe it depends on who you are trying to market your babies to. I find that eventers don't care about color as much and folks looking for a jumper project care not at all. Maybe the disciplines that are most subjectively judged draw a crowd more concerned about color. And certainly, upper level riders and professionals don't seem to give color any weight in their decision. If my main goal was to market to the low ammy's and the trail/pleasure folk I would be more concerned with the color of my foals. As it stands now if an interested party were to comment they didn't like the color of the horse I was marketing to them, I would kindly dismiss them as potential clients. I can afford to do that being as I am purely a hobbiest and have other income. Color certainly sells-surprisingly well.

[goodpony]

Strangely enough in our breed there are those that shun anything but GREY.

I have been told that melanomas are less prevalent in heterozygous Greys...and this from life long breeder of Grey Ponies with two homozygous grey stallions who lived well into their thirties. I have also heard that the incidence of Melanoma's is higher among certain bloodlines.

OKGO I'd be very interested in reading that article....could you share a link or reference?

[okggo]

Goodpony, here is a synopsis from the horse (you need to register to read it)

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=4655

and the Journal link (but you actually have to buy it) https://secure.evj.co.uk/cgi-bin/ind...ml?id=kiYwSXCY

[akrogirl]

In my case, when I was first looking to buy a horse, I was hoping to find a grey. Despite trying some pretty flashy horses with lots of chrome, I ended up with two, rather plain, dark brown/bays. Next time around, I had decided no greys because of the melanoma stuff, and was not overly fond of overos and toveros either. Yep, I ended up with a beautiful rose grey, and a loud, chestnut and white tovero, lol.

In my case, given that they all have good conformation and the performance ability I need, the horses' personalities are the deciding factor, not their color - though I admit to having a fondness for buckskins, silver dapples and blue roans ;-) I tend to buck the trends anyway; I like the heavier built, older types with large heads, lol.

[Centuree]

I LOVE a big muscular pure white warmblood. the C lines, and the Lipizans, in my fine opinion are absolutely gorgeous!!

I've had horses of all colour, black, blood bay, palomino, grey, and think they are all beautiful in their own way.

I love my black horse, as he gleams and shines in spring, fall and winter. He's got the star on his forehead too, just like BB - haha. Unfortunately, he turns orange every single summer. what can you do?.

Also LOVE the red chestnuts (I've never owned one, so that contributes to the novelty). But nothing looks more flashy, then a red shiny chestnut with lots of chrome.

Love the variety you get with horses. I know though that chestnut mares are not popular, due to the stereotype of them being piggy. That is a stereotype, and definitely not all chestnut mares are like that, but I used to break babies, and the ones that usually gave me the most trouble were those spunky chestnut fillies - lol.

If I happen to fall off, there was a 50% chance it was off a chestnut filly.

[Donella]

As it stands now if an interested party were to comment they didn't like the color of the horse I was marketing to them, I would kindly dismiss them as potential clients.

I kind of agree. My mare is grey and had a grey Londonderry filly last year. There was actually a lady who wasn't interested BEFORE she saw the filly because of the color. Kind of weird...but still ok because that kind of foal is not hard to sell.

I will consider color when chosing stallions just because there are SO many nice boys out there..it doesn't hurt if they are homozygous for black if you have a chestnut mare..but it won't make or break it for me. In the end I still chose Quaterback for the chestnut mare this year. So I get a chestnut foal...if it looks and moves like I think it will I think there will be enough people who will take it in a chestnut package.

OTOH..I do think chrome is a huge factor for people. To me a totally plain jane blah chestnut with no white is different than a liver or bright red chestnut with chrome all over. For most people anyways..right?

[sporthorsefilly]

chrome junkie

I am an admitted chrome junkie, with three sabinos and a TB with 3 ankle socks. I love glitz, but agree that performance and temperment are very important. If those criteria are there and the horse is sabino...I am sold.

Also drawn to Palomino and also to paint! Would also love a White TB.

Color matters to me, as long as I don't sacrifice temperment and performance in the package.