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Deciding to breed my mares (most are ponies)

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  • Deciding to breed my mares (most are ponies)

    a bit long...
    I have a little herd of mares that I truly love.
    "We" (my DD & I ) have discussed breeding at least 2, and have considered costs, risks, etc. We are not necessarily breeding to sell, in fact, the foals hopefully would be raised and trained for our own children. So, here is our options:
    a) 5 yr old Welsh mare, 13.1 of Cob type (grand-daughter of Glenhaven's
    Derwin-Denmark)http://www.glenhavenwelsh.com/section_d_welsh.htm. Dark bay mare, star and stripe, wonderful confirmation, good riding and driving pony with exceptional temperament.
    b) 12 yr old bay roan Welsh section A 12 hh mare. "Celynnen Magnolia" - by Talmo Cricket out of Severn Windflower, (a mare owned by Louise Hollyday, so our "Maggie" is Maryland Bred) Grand sire - Smoke Tree Troubadour. Nice temperament, Very nice riding & driving pony
    c) unregistered but of Welsh type very nice 12.1 hh silver dapple 8 yr old mare -- super smooth gaits, sweet elegant little mare
    d)AQHA gray mare - 14 yrs old, looks like a big pony, definite "hunter" movement. Rated judges pick her often in hack classes
    e) Haflinger mare - daughter of Aristocrat TOF - 14 hh. Looks very much like her father.

  • #2
    I'm not sure if I understood what the question is?
    Home of Welsh Cob stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
    Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness


    • #3
      Are you looking for stallion suggestions? What type of pony are you hoping to end up with? Hunter? Driving? or simply pleasure riding? What size pony are you hoping to end up with? Your mares all sound nice, but needing different types of stallions depending on what you are trying to end up with.
      Quicksilver Farms, LLC
      "Welsh Hunter Ponies"
      Welsh Sec. B Stallions and
      Fancy Show Pony Prospects


      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by Daventry View Post
        I'm not sure if I understood what the question is?
        Sorry. I would like some opinions (if there are any) regarding which ponies to choose. I feel that the most logical choices would be the 2 Welsh mares. What I hope to breed for is nice riding ponies for children. I feel that all the mares are breeding quality, but 1 has no registration, however, I really like her type. She, and the bay roan welsh are both small ponies. On the other hand, the bay welsh section C mare is one I particularly like, primarily because she's of a size that a "moderate" sized adult can ride her, she has all the qualities that I like for riding, as well as driving.I appreciate others opinions.


        • #5
          Would love to see photos of the SD mare =)
          "Never let the fear of striking out, keep you from playing the game."


          • #6
            If you are wanting purebreds with the opportunity to show them possibly at Welsh shows then I would definitely go with the two Welsh mares. Choose a Sec. C or D stallion for the C mare to get a nice Cob of good size. For the Sec. A, you could go in several directions..you can breed to a Sec. A for a nice small pony that you could ride/drive, or to a Sec. B and possibly end up with a medium depending on the stallion you choose or you could even go up in size by breeding to a Sec. D and get another C. Would love to see photos of them
            Quicksilver Farms, LLC
            "Welsh Hunter Ponies"
            Welsh Sec. B Stallions and
            Fancy Show Pony Prospects


            • Original Poster

              Well, I obviously need to figure out how to post pictures on this board.
              The Section A mare does have Coed Coch / and Severn family lines -- and she does have a great big step. She is the perfect small pony for a child. The Section C mare is def. a "Cob" -- and has some action in her knee at the trot. What I love the most about her is this: she is solid in every way - physically, mentally - and has been easy to train. We bought her when she had only been driven. It was easy to train her under saddle.


              • #8
                The stallion Noble Houston produces some really nice foal's. I know he crosses well with Quarter horses. They breed him to a buckskin/paint mare that they have won awards with. Might be worth checking out, your pony's nice too bad my daughter is only 3 months old I want to get her a pony when she is ready! Here is the website for the stallion http://www.noblehouston.com/index.html Best of Luck!
                I wonder what our horses would post about?!


                • #9
                  You have lots of possibilities!

                  Check out the WPCSA web site: www.welshpony.org and visit the stallion section to give you some possibilities to consider.

                  As quicksilver ponies said above, you'll want to take your C mare to a C or D stallion, but you have more options with your Section A mare. She could go to a Section A stallion, breed to a Section B to breed more size, or to a Cob, to create (most likely) a Section C.
                  Family Partners Welsh Ponies - Home of Section B Welsh stallion *Wedderlie Mardi Gras LOM/AOE http://www.welshponies.com
                  Click here to buy: A Guide To In Hand Showing of Your Welsh Pony


                  • #10
                    IMO I think Section A's cross well with BRP's
                    WillowBrook Stables
                    Hunters and Ponies


                    • #11
                      You are still being very vague. I think that you need to have a more distinct plan. Consider the fertility of the mares. They need to have a pre breeding workup...that might help make the selection as some may not be clean or might not have a fit uterous. It is more complicated than just saying would you want a pony just like the mother as likely you will not be breeding for Section As or Cs or QHs but if you got the movement and temperament of the pony in the foal would that be a good thing. Do you want to be able to sell if your children have no interest, are not good enough to start green ponies, you loose your job, your family develops other interests? What are the interests of you and your kids...hunter jumper/dressage/eventing/Welsh shows/ so then would your mares be a good producer to cross to produce hunt ponies or dressage...

                      My experience says yes you must only breed to produce horses or ponies who will have value in the market because anything can happen and with horses often does. That means you need to understand what the market is looking for at various levels. Section C Welsh Cobs seem to be a pretty difficult sell over all the Sections and I would be careful to make more if you haven't learned about areas Cs go into like competitive driving or Welsh shows. There is a very fun Welsh circuit so having Welshs doesn't mean you have to show open hunter ponies.

                      Work backwards. What do you want to produce? Talk to someone already breeding that type of pony and listen to their advice. Then start looking for the stallions successful in that area...go see what types of mares are working to produce quality from that stallion...maybe one of your mares fits...then you choose a mare and maybe accept that you might not be able to get there from one of the mares. Good Luck PatO


                      • Original Poster

                        Thanks for the comments.
                        I have been researching different stallions, and have been looking at other "siblings" of my mares, and what they are doing.
                        As stated earlier, the mare I prefer over all is the Section C.
                        I am thinking "sport pony" & not breeding for a "hunter pony market". Yes, from what I'm reading, it doesn't seem that the Section C is the most sought after "type" of welsh. She could certainly be bred to a Section D, but call me "different" I actually like the compact but strong type C. I'm more interested in producing a sturdy (but attractive) pony good for driving, eventing, hunter paces. The mare I own has a great temperament, a very defined pony profile, and really covers the ground in all three gaits. I love it even more that a 7 yr old can catch her, tack her, and go for a gallop with me - this 13.1 hh mare keeps up with any size horse I may be riding.
                        The Section A mare is lovely too - and has turned out to be a very big favorite on our farm for beginner kids as well as more advanced. (She is quite an inspiration to learn to rise to the trot) - Her movement is def. "hunter" with a lot of swing in her shoulder. We've had to rely on our small pony jockeys to keep her "honest", and I feel lucky to have these small 'advanced" riders.
                        I'm obviously leaning to only breeding Welsh, with the 2 reg. Welsh mares being the first choices, but not discounting the silver dapple mare, or the (very nice) 15 hh quarter horse mare.
                        Yes, I realize that circumstances do change, but I intend to keep the foals that I breed, but hopefully produce & train a pony that is valued for being "sporty" and good tempered.
                        Sorry to be rambling here. The comments made by rideagoldenpony made me seriously considered breeding the Section A mare to a C or D.
                        I appreciate the sensible comments by Columbus, and agree that it would be foolish to produce a pony that was not in demand, but honestly I "think" there is great value is a nice "all around" pony, that has not been specifically bred for pinning in the hunter shows, but who has true pony characteristics, as well as kid-friendly.


                        • #13
                          I "think" there is great value is a nice "all around" pony, that has not been specifically bred for pinning in the hunter shows, but who has true pony characteristics, as well as kid-friendly.

                          I do agree with you however I think the value is more intrinsic. These ponies often don't bring a lot of money; however, you've already stated that your intent is to breed to keep. I think the key will be whether or not you're able to train what you produce. If you can and do (have a system of getting it done even if it's going to someone else) then the ponies will have value to others regardless of their forte.
                          Ranch of Last Resort


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bit O Groby View Post
                            Thanks for the comments.
                            I have been researching different stallions, and have been looking at other "siblings" of my mares, and what they are doing.
                            As stated earlier, the mare I prefer over all is the Section C.
                            I am thinking "sport pony" & not breeding for a "hunter pony market". Yes, from what I'm reading, it doesn't seem that the Section C is the most sought after "type" of welsh. .
                            The UK Section C does not fit the American definitions of "pony" which are really completely regulated by the hunter pony market...they cannot exceed 13.2 and (should) move like animals that are 16 hh high...compare that to the american hunter pony divisions and movement...
                            they are quite popular and specifically bred elsewhere,here not so much
                            as Exvet said if you are not gonna start them yourself in four years,well.... don't bother

                            Tamara in TN
                            Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                            I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.


                            • #15
                              Working backwards....breed this year, foal born in 2012, start breaking to ride in mid-late 2015(that depends on the mind of foal and physical development).

                              If your daughter is 7 now, will she be interested in ponies or boys when she is almost a pre-teen, soon to be a teen.

                              If breeding for yourself, then breed to get something of the size you are going to ride then sell if you want. Because you will be the one dealing with it if your daughter does not continue on with ponies/horses.
                              And consider that it cost the same to raise & feed a bad horse & a good horse.
                              And hope the entire pregnancy to rideability goes uneventful in textbook fashion.


                              • Original Poster

                                Here is my circumstances, and what I'm planning:
                                My daughter is not the 7 yr old -- she is an adult with "the" 7 and 5 yr old -- The 7 yr old y is a strong rider and he's all muscle. He's been riding (independently) since he was 5, and he learned "how to ride" on the lunge line, on older quarter horses. This is where he got his seat and confidence, and then learned further riding skills by riding our Section A mare - who was trained in all the basics, but rides and handles quite differently than the quarter horses. She is a "good" pony, but not above pulling some pony tricks now & then. In my opinion, this is an ideal way for a child to learn to ride.
                                As for "future riders" for whatever we bred - we have a small /local lesson program on our farm that produces several exceptional riders every year, and we have been fortunate to have these riders evolve to be working students once they are of driving age. As far as "in house / or in-family" future riders, I have a total of 9 grand-children, and one more on the way. In this crowd there are 2 five yr olds, 2 three year olds, and one on the way. I figure that for quite a while I will have potential pony riders, and my youngest son (I have a total of 4 children) has not yet married /or had children.
                                The Section C pony that my daughter & I both ride was purchased as a 2 yr old. Her training was only the basics of driving, she had not been under saddle. We just let her grow for another year, and had her be ridden lightly - by very light weight riders. She grew to be 13.1, with plenty of bone, and yes she moves like a horse. As a 57 yr old grandmother, who also teaches, I have a "home grown" use for ponies, and I can train them.
                                Obviously, in this market, and for the foreseeable future, purchasing young quality ponies is more cost efficient than breeding, and I have gone that route as well. I would not consider breeding for the Section C ponies if my plan was to sell, or for just one child.


                                • #17
                                  Sorry about my bluntness but your opening post and others have been confusing. I assumed your your daughter was young from your opening post and it appeared confirmed in post #12 with the "7 yr old can catch, tack & gallop her".

                                  I would go with a section D or C.
                                  I ride a section D Welsh Cob and truly enjoy him and his funny personality.