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Pony Breeders: What happens with oversized ponies?

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  • As much as I adore my breed, I believe the "typical" individual who is looking for a smaller dressage mount wants warmblood movement and the more modern refinement/look. I'm afraid you just aren't going to find all that in the "typical" purebred Welsh Cob. Now that doesn't mean at all that I think the Welsh Cob movement is subpar or less. I have one who scores very well on gaits as long as I can get him through the back and that is where the difficulty is. They do have flash and can demonstrate very good quality of gaits but it, imo, requires some work and many don't want to go there. They are far too prone to cart horse type movement if they're tense, nervous or allowed to work/go along within their natural carriage. Again I say this as one who has one at FEI and two working well at third and have ridden many others. They are definitely my preference for a ride and we do have our following but I am the first to admit that they like many other baroque type breeds are an acquired taste.

    I think the connemaras (as long as they retain that pony head/cute head) are far more likely to fit the mold that today's dressage riders want. I thought this 20-25 years ago when I started entertaining the idea of switching from warmbloods to ponies and still do. I just always have and always will march to the beat of my own drum. I do know that whatever you ride, if it's sound, sane and is well trained you'll always have "some-type" of market.
    Ranch of Last Resort

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    • i think that a well trained horse or pony of any breed will shine.... and that no matter how much we love our breeds of choice - it is the rider/trainer that really matters in most cases.....

      (what i mean by the above is that any sound pony or horse with decent confo can do well as it is really all about the training and the riding !)

      altho the cute pony ears can't hurt!
      Last edited by mbm; Feb. 22, 2013, 04:39 PM.

      Comment


      • I don't disagree mbm; but, I do try to keep my ear to the ground and see what people are looking for....(many times I think to myself that it doesn't exist)...as well as why they don't like this or that. I won't compromise my views on quality to achieve it but I will be interested over the next few years if my part-breds all move on faster than the purebreds. Now the caveat to all of that is that I'm terrible at marketing, awful at selling and very good at running people off......so.....not an experiment without bias

        Back to the point of the thread, however, I have never had a problem finding a decent moving animal in this height range; but, I have had trouble finding one with training that is affordable or finding one that doesn't have issues due to its training which is a big reason why I chose the path I did so many years ago.
        Ranch of Last Resort

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        • Man where were you when I was trying to sell my super fancy 14.3 3/4 tb/paint cross mare! Bought her as a yearling and she got too big! But her and I got year end reserve champion in the 3' hunters as a 5 year old. She had the stride, and would have excelled as a dressage mount! Because I had to liquidate to move I had to sell her for well below her worth but she's a great short stirrup/lesson horse now. The market for small horses isn't big ... No one would even look at her because they wanted a pony or a big horse. Despite her incredible talent no one would even try her. Was sad.
          First and foremost about the horse.
          Rose Bud Ranch Sporthorses
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          • I think in the next decade the Welsh Partbred will really have the chance to shine and we as breeders will only have one shot at it....one wave of mediocre crap Partbreds will sink us...but there is no reason in the world we cannot do what they have done in Wales so well...
            over and over and over again
            Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
            I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

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            • Exvet, Ive not noticed a phenominal difference between selling pure and part breds once they approach riding age (obviously very pretty, rideable, good moving individuals are going to sell well, and sell faster). The partbreds tend to be quite a bit more 'competitive' in my breed usually due to having more horse-like gaits/ground cover than some of the more true "pony" individuals. There are unfortunately a lot of shorter strided/ pony movers in my breed. The shorter strided ponies are not true to type in my opinion--typically you see a lot of that with the more 'domestic' bloodlines.

              The last 15.2 er I sold is now competing very very successfully at PSG--her owner absolutely adores her every which way upside down and backwards. She sold within 3m of going on the market (at just 3 yo and very green broke). I got very lucky though her owner, an amateur, is a very good hand and did absolutely phenominally by her. So as for me-we have not had any problem finding a ready market for the smaller sport horse/overheight ponies.
              Redbud Ranch
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              • I think in the next decade the Welsh Partbred will really have the chance to shine and we as breeders will only have one shot at it

                I think you're right. It's one reason why I keep going back and forth on whether to breed Maddie or Cosmo this year. The baby Cosmo had is truly top quality and is on the same level as Autumn. The challenge is that I don't think she will be an ammy's pony/hony anytime in her early career. I don't think I'll have any trouble with her though (she's just my kind ). So when I look at the other baby, the purebred, and see ammy mount written all over her because she's one of those born broke types I'm swayed more in that direction. The real problem is that they (the market) will all be drawn to Cosmo's baby, want Cosmo's baby but will be better off with Maddie's baby.
                Ranch of Last Resort

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                • Originally posted by exvet View Post
                  I don't disagree mbm; but, I do try to keep my ear to the ground and see what people are looking for....(many times I think to myself that it doesn't exist)...as well as why they don't like this or that. I won't compromise my views on quality to achieve it but I will be interested over the next few years if my part-breds all move on faster than the purebreds. Now the caveat to all of that is that I'm terrible at marketing, awful at selling and very good at running people off......so.....not an experiment without bias

                  Back to the point of the thread, however, I have never had a problem finding a decent moving animal in this height range; but, I have had trouble finding one with training that is affordable or finding one that doesn't have issues due to its training which is a big reason why I chose the path I did so many years ago.
                  i guess what i was trying to say, was that its too bad that folks are so narrow visioned when it comes to "dressage prospects" because honestly - unless someone is trying to qualify for in'tl competition, a pony or hony is just as good a choice (maybe better!) than a WB.

                  I personally love the feel of my little guy - and wonder why it took me so long to make the switch i am hoping to get him out this summer to some shows - if for no other reason that he loves the attention

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by exvet View Post

                    The baby Cosmo had is truly top quality and is on the same level as Autumn. The challenge is that I don't think she will be an ammy's pony/hony anytime in her early career. I don't think I'll have any trouble with her though (she's just my kind ). So when I look at the other baby, the purebred, and see ammy mount written all over her because she's one of those born broke types I'm swayed more in that direction. The real problem is that they (the market) will all be drawn to Cosmo's baby, want Cosmo's baby but will be better off with Maddie's baby.

                    it's like selling hay....they think they want one thing but NEED the other we will just have to do our best with each one.

                    t.
                    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

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                    • Originally posted by TrueColours View Post
                      Well ... there IS that vet in Quebec that will make that pesky 14.3-15hh "hony" a "pony" once again for a fee ... ...

                      Once the stitches come out and the withers heal from being ground down the required 1-2 inches and the hair grows back, you'd NEVER know your "pony" was once a "hony" ... ... and you can easily get your permanent card too!

                      Oh! And if you get an unmarked Paint and need a spot put on it to make Regular Registry with APHA instead of breeding stock, he has a catalogue of spots you can pick from and voila! When you leave your APHA foal will now have a nice new "natural" spot and you can now apply for your Regular Paint papers too

                      He does VERY VERY well in this line of business too ...
                      Sadly, I'm sure there is more then one individual out there like this. Especially regarding height "changes".

                      Comment


                      • People really do have such a strange hangup and misconception about size. I teach lessons and almost all of my horses are ponies, having at least some welsh in them. Because I think Welshes are awesome, you have athleticism, heart, soundness, easy keeper, and typy cute all rolled together in one. Just the other day I had a new student come to watch a lesson and his big concern was the horses were too small. The kid was maybe 5 foot tall and the horses in the lessons were all larges. I explained to him size doesn't matter (hah). I do have some horses (wb/tb/paint) but they are a lot more horse to handle.

                        Comment


                        • we will just have to do our best with each one.

                          Yup. It will come down to the training in the end as it has most of the time. Best get out to ride the beasts so I can keep my velcro at the ready and in shape


                          The partbreds tend to be quite a bit more 'competitive' in my breed usually due to having more horse-like gaits/ground cover than some of the more true "pony" individuals.

                          This (movement) as well as "look" is why I think that the part bred Welsh Cob will do better around here as well. While I have seen a small number of "breeders" get into Welsh Cobs over the last 10 years, it's still at a far lower rate (time, money and interest) than in previous years when you would see a rather large number of prefixes getting approved annually. There are quarterly issues of our breed rag that (not only is far behind in printing) sometimes don't even have one new prefix to add. Many of the well known breeders have died or have dissolved. Looking at the USDF All-Breed rankings, Susan Stepneys produce out-shined all others. She stopped breeding more than a few years ago. Only one of her three stallions who produced those listed is still be used at stud. I guess I'm seeing a shrinking market for the purebreds in general despite being in the size range that some seem to think is elusive/rare. Just seems ironic and yet not too surprising.
                          Ranch of Last Resort

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                          • Just as an aside from this thread concerning partbreds I just read that one of the Australian Olympic Dressage Representatives has purchased a partbred Connemara x Welsh as a pony schoolmaster for her daughter. The pony appears to have competed through I1 and is seen here doing a demonstration at the Queensland Dressage Festival: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRgDEZZOj3k

                            It is the very same scenario in our breed--far fewer breeders than when we first got started down this road. Most have retired or sold out.
                            Redbud Ranch
                            Check us out on FB

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                            • Original Poster

                              Originally posted by goodpony View Post
                              Just as an aside from this thread concerning partbreds I just read that one of the Australian Olympic Dressage Representatives has purchased a partbred Connemara x Welsh as a pony schoolmaster for her daughter. The pony appears to have competed through I1 and is seen here doing a demonstration at the Queensland Dressage Festival: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRgDEZZOj3k

                              It is the very same scenario in our breed--far fewer breeders than when we first got started down this road. Most have retired or sold out.
                              Hey it's Flora in 10 years! What a cute pony!

                              On that note, off to ride the pony. Just heard that with Joe back she's been out jumping some of the novice fences on XC. Seems the dressage might come later, after a few years of running and jumping. Maybe some endurance rides?
                              On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

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                              • Did you see Floras half sib--she (same sire) is just getting going too (she is only 4.5) and is an over height (15.3HH) Connemara x Warmblood.

                                https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
                                Last edited by goodpony; Feb. 23, 2013, 02:20 PM.
                                Redbud Ranch
                                Check us out on FB

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                                • In my experience there is a great market for oversized ponies/small horses. Most of the people who contact me are looking for a size of 14.2hh minimum, but prefer something around 15hh. All of my mares are between 14.2 3/4hh-15.1hh, and have been bred to stallions who are 14.2 3/4hh-14.3hh. So far, all of the offspring are maturing to 14.3hh or taller. But, even if I have something a little smaller, that is no worry. The first foal I bred was out of a slightly smaller stallion and matured to only 14hh, but is a very successful hunter on the East Coast, and doing well in other disciplines as well with his young rider.
                                  Mary/New Horizons Haflinger Sport Horses
                                  Standing Stellar TVR, 2013 N.A. Stallion Testing/lifetime licensed WE, RPSI, AWS, AHR
                                  www.newhorizonshaflingers.com

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