Who would you pick for a Shire mare ?

[Ladybug Hill]

Zarr would be a lovely type, but he is quite a bit hotter than some of the other suggestions. Magical would be a lovely choice--he puts very quiet foals on the ground.

[poneez]

Perhaps our newest fellow might prove of interest?

Harvest Moon by Absolut, or "Harvey", is a very elegant 16.2h, but a very substantial boy, indeed. I'm really looking forward to breeding him to a particularly full-bodied Dutch mare of ours, I think he's going to be a fantastic compliment for her. Of course, it's a bonus that his offspring are inheriting his ability to excel in the show ring.

www.baystarfarms.ca/harvest_moon.htm

Your mare is just so very lovely - that face! Oh, wouldn't she be a thrill to greet in the barn each morning!

[7up]

I love the draft cross horses for hunting and eventing. She is a lovely sabino so in would be great if her foal also displayed the lovely color of her dam. I would suggest our JC stallion C Spot Go. His foals have wonderful temperaments even out of hot race bred mares. They have beautiful heads and most of course are beautifully marked. His get are lovely big movers and the foals of age to jump are proving themselves on the event course as well.

[TrueColours]

Our cremello TB stallion - Guaranteed Gold - has been successfuly bred to Draft mares in the past and the older ones are having successful competitive careers right now, notably in the eventing field at the Training level ...

They can be seen at:

http://www.angelfire.com/on3/TrueCol...raftfoals.html

He does refine the larger framed mares and add elegance and lightness to them

Your mare is a really nice type. Good luck in your search ...

[Maddie]

I would stay with TB myself for a full draft. But if you do decide that warmblood is the way to go, I would choose Trakehner simply as they are more refined as far as warmbloods go. Or a stallion with alot of TB blood.

I agree tb/draft often end up as some of the nicest draft crosses! I've always thought it would be interesting to see a full draft cross with the Trak Oskar!

[Hampton Bay]

What about an Andy or Lusitano? They crossed them on Perch mares for the Spanish Norman, and that is a nice cross. If you look, some of them can really jump. The sire of my foal is Lusitano and is quite a jumper.

[columbus]

Please reconsider

I am going to be the one to ask you to not breed the mare. I'm not one who turns up my nose at draftx horses as I have ridden many many of the best. However I ask you to guess how many of those that were bred to be sport horses actually came out as hoped. The world is full of those who lack the quality to be sport horses. It is not that they can't it is that only a small percentage make the cut. Draftx are better to buy as young horses or older than to breed for.

Right now we have such a terrible over population of horses who really are useless for many reasons but there is no place for them to go. Don't breed a cross that has a much lower percentage chance of coming out the way you hope. Only breed if you can be sure that if you get every charecteristic you DON'T want...too big a head for the body...very slow feet that aren't quick enough to get you out of trouble on a hunt or in a combination...much increased chance of ringbone and navicular and EPSM(a virtual guarantee of EPMS to some degree)...I agree that the offspring might be perfect as well with incredible power and very athletic but I ask that you do a general search on draft crosses and keep track of how many you could use in your barn if that was the product of your adventure. It is just so difficult to guarantee a long useful well lived life for horses that are not what we dream of when we breed right now. It is very sad that we can't have our breeding adventures with crossbreds because it can be such a charge to get the dream horse you imagine but the horse world is now so appalingly difficult for the imperfect horses right now and for years to come. Sorry to be the negative one but I am seeing such a dire outlook right now...make a home for a draft crossbred you find instead...rescue as there are so many. PatO

[La Gringa]

well that certainly is negative. You are entitled to your opinion. I have also considered breeding her to a Shire as well.. so there it wouldn't be a cross, but a lovely purebred registered horse.

I enjoy breeding and have bred a wonderful filly myself just last year.. so I am not just indiscriminately considering this.

You are possibly right for my draft cross wishes, maybe I will purchase, my old gelding is going downhill fast and I already have a baby in the growing up stages.

I wouldn't just breed her to any stallion out there, I would do my homework, and would make sure that any baby I would breed would go to a responsible home... regardless of the outcome.

Some people take all the fun out of stuff....

[sid]

Surely, one should be applauded for speaking to the horse overpopulaton (elderly or poorly bred) problem.

But, people are going to breed, not for profit, but because of the special relationship they might have with their mare...and want to duplicate that feeling. Or try to make a mare's life "worthwhile" (don't get me started on that issue!).

When someone posts here asking about breeing choice, I am grateful they are seeking advice from seasoned breeders so that they will hopefully put the best baby on the ground that will stay sound and sane for their lifetime.

It's those who are careless and ignorant about breeding, and are solely profit motivated that concern me the most.

Kudos to La Gringa for seeking advice on this breeding. Breeding drafts to hot bloods can be a dicey endeavor. Glad to see she's not just doing this haphazardly or on a whim. Horse protectionists should praise people like her for their foresight and remember that she's breeding for her own future mount for crying out loud, with presumably a lifetime home...not for selling.

Edited to say: Didn't see La Gringa's last post before I posted. I wouldn't breed this mare with the intention of selling if the cross is less than stellar,. Hopefully you are prepared to keep it yourself rather than passing it down the line. That's the responsibility, IMO, that comes with breeding such vastly different breeds . Good luck!

[La Gringa]

Edited to say: Didn't see La Gringa's last post before I posted. I wouldn't breed this mare with the intention of selling if the cross is less than stellar,. Hopefully you are prepared to keep it yourself rather than passing it down the line. That's the responsibility, IMO, that comes with breeding such vastly different breeds . Good luck!

My intent would be for a horse for myself, and I would keep the foal for as long as I would be able.. but as we all know.. sometimes things happens and we are forced to sell. What I meant by my post was IF I were to ever sell, it would be to a responsible home, as I would for any horse that I own, or any animal at all for that matter.

My horses are like my children, and I have 30 + years of experience riding,showing, and living with horses. Breeding is my newest phase of horse ownership, but I am certainly not a novice when it comes to sporthorses. (I rode with Hap Hansen as a jr) I am not doing to do something insanely stupid. I am still contemplating breeding the shire, I may not do it at all, but I do like the draft cross mind, and have known many very nice ones that live close to me in VA.

Did you all see the filly I bred last year?

Here are a couple of pics to remind you all..





I need to get a more recent photo, she's a fuzzy yakling at the moment...

[sid]

Personally, I love the TB/Shire crosses but it takes a ton of research and looking at offspring from the individual pairs (breeding within their own breed) to really find a suitable match...even then it can be a crap shoot.

That's why I suggested a TB/Shire x stallion or a wb that is subtantial with TB blood close in the pedigree. It will reduce your chances of getting a big bodied horse on a frame (especially legs/feet) that will not support it long term for sport.

Again, I love the cross you are thinking about breeding...but there's a LOT to it to make a really good baby that gets the best of both breeds in an amalgamation of traits you are looking for.

[La Gringa]

Personally, I love the TB/Shire crosses but it takes a ton of research and looking at offspring from the individual pairs (breeding within their own breed) to really find a suitable match...even then it can be a crap shoot.

That's why I suggested a TB/Shire x stallion or a wb that is subtantial with TB blood close in the pedigree. It will reduce your chances of getting a big bodied horse on a frame (especially legs/feet) that will not support it long term for sport.

Again, I love the cross you are thinking about breeding...but there's a LOT to it to make a really good baby that gets the best of both breeds in an amalgamation of traits you are looking for.

I agree with you, and that is why from the first post on this thread I said I was always considering a WB as a cross as well.

Right now I think I am just going to think about it, and focus on bringing up my current baby.

I will probably go shopping for a draft cross for myself! See? That's why we need these threads.. to help us think this through.. I don't want to wait! My old gelding is retiring now, not in 4 years! Light bulb!

[LCR]

"Put the Blood on Top" is stated for a reason and if you use a SHAGYA ARABIAN stallion
you will be amazed at how this cross is a blend of all the positives. I have frozen
semen stored at ER concepts in Amissville, Va. from LILY CREEK STETSON, an approved
SHAGYA stallion. You will get a gray baby as he is homozygous for gray!

You can see his video on his page on my web site. The Shagya has been used by many
warm blood registry and many of the stallions are in their stud books. You will add refinement without losing height. This breed is so pre-potent for all the good traits,
but being so rare, it is difficult to find many representatives of the breed. I have crossed with
TB mares and these horses are showing in "A" hunter shows, one even as a jumper.

www.shagyasport.com

Breeder of the rare Shagya Arabian

[DARQHORSE]

La Gringa,

I should also mention another stallion that you might want to consider. His name is French Buffet and he stands at VDL Stud in holland. He is a STUNNING jumper and if he is standing with VDL, then you can be assured that he is top caliber. My good friend had a brother to French Buffet and he was a top hunter and did very well in the jumpers as well. He was only 15.3 but he jumped over 5' bareback. He had an awesome mind - I jumped my first big fences on him, and his owner used to ride him backback all the time (she even would walk him with her standing on his back in a halter). He's worth a look for sure!! VDL is amazing to deal with. www.vdlstud.nl

Cheers

[Curley07]

Honestly, I would breed her pure shire and buy a draft cross that you like. The purebred foal will likely have more value and future than the gamble with crossing. Shires are excellent riding horses as well. I would choose a tall "hitchy" type stallion for this mare with an emphasis on clean FLAT bone, high sharp hocks and a shoulder that lays back a bit more than the mares and the neck pours up and out of. I would also pick a stallion with an excellent national show record and imported bloodlines. These factors will add quite a bit of value to the offspring.

Here's a website with some stallions listed and I'm sure that the American Shire Association would have a website with breeder listings. I would steer away from the stallions that are owned only by "riding folk" who have not proven theses stallions against their peers at breed shows. Not because I have anything against them, it's just that the stallions are "probably" not the quality needed here to produce the best shire.

http://www.draftsforsale.com/Search/...search_ad_age=

[Curley07]

More Shires,

http://www.shires4sale.com/Search/in...oryImage=studs

I particularily like this stallion for your mare

http://www.shires4sale.com/ShowAd/in...=43dd2c0557e97

Good luck with whatever you decide

[sid]

BTW, "Gronant King William", if he's still alive is an outstanding, multiple national champion who was imported from England. Last I know he was in Colorado. I have two TB x crosses by him who have been just outstanding.

If I were to breed Shires, he'd be my first choice. I believe he also has frozen semen (both of my youngsters were produced by frozen 15 and 16 years ago).

[SandyUHC]

LCR, well, please post pictures of LILY CREEK STETSON's Shire babies so we can help LaGringa decide if he is just the ticket.

[LCR]

No STETSON does not have Shire cross foals, but the SHAGYA crossed with the Draft
breeds has been done in the U.S. with great success. Many years ago, a Hungarian gentlemen
had a grey (turned pure white) four-in-hand hitch that toured the country and
received and impressed many who saw them perform.

Then the SHAGYA was crossed with Percheron mares and 4-5 of this cross proved to
be wonderful in the dressage ring and Hunter ring. They were tall, about 16.3 to 17 hands
and appeared to be excellent warm blood type. One would never have guessed they
were draft crosses! I had two at my farm that their owner contracted for sale and they
sold in the five figure range and went on to be successful.

If someone wished to do this cross on a large scale, they are very appealing horses
and have many advantages over some of the breeds being used now!

[SandyUHC]

I think you missed my point so I will be less tactful. You are DARQHORSE are just pushing your stallions without verifiable information that would help LaGringa make an informed decision.

IME

(Which, henceforce, means I Miss Erin.)