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registry options for un-papered TB mare

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  • registry options for un-papered TB mare

    I'm seriously considering shipping a lovely 17hh TB mare out here to Montana, from South Florida. She belongs to a good friend of mine who cannot afford to keep her and wants to send her to me to insure that she has a loving home. She seems like a gem- lovely confo and movement, and a puppy dog personality, too. She is a 2002 model.
    (This means look forward to another near future "which stallion should I pick" thread) ha
    She is tatooed and therefore has her pedigree info, but no JC papers.
    What options do I have for her as a broodmare? What registries will her foals be eligible for? If any?

  • #2
    If she is tattooed then she is registered with the Jockey Club. If you can read her tattoo you can look the tattoo up on the Jockey Club website to find her registered name (if you don't already know it).

    I don't know if you have to turn in a copy of her papers or not for breeding but you can register a foal with the KWPN without the JC registered mare being inspected, as long as, the sire is approved or an approved "Erkend" stallion. Call the KWPN and ask.
    Richard, Approved Black KWPN Stallion
    and Facebook page
    Oh Kaptain Underpants SFS, Approved BRp pony stallion
    Website and Facebook page


    • #3
      If you know her identity you can probably get the papers re-issued from the jockey club, however this is a few hundred dollars and involves very involved paperwork (fill in all the whorls and cowlicks type stuff).

      Once you have her papers in had you'll be able to take her through most of the WB approvals, bearing in mind that some are more generous than others to TBs. There are certain registries that don't even require inspection of a registered TB mare, others that require a higher score for TB mares than other WB mares.

      If you can't get her papers, that's another issue. You'll probably be limited to a COP, or at best, auxiliary studbook type papers, which would allow her foals to be registered but colts would have to be gelded, etc. I know this is at least an option with the BWP.

      I think the JC is helping the AHHA get "virtual papers" on TBs too but they are one of the registries that requires a higher score for TBs.

      First thing to do is find out her identity.
      The rebel in the grey shirt


      • #4
        Since I'm of a western mindset, I don't know if you'd be interested or not, but you can register with the Pinto Ass'n as breeding stock.

        Just a thought...
        GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


        • Original Poster

          I know her registered name and have her 5 gen. pedigree from the JC database, but not her original JC papers. I've always thought the registries all req'd the original JC papers. Correct me if I'm wrong! And I hope that I'm wrong!


          • #6
            You can get papers re-issued (they will be stamped as certified copies). In order to do that, you have to fill out a formal affidavit stating the original papers are lost and request another copy sent, send in the fee. That information can be found on the Jockey Club website. You will have to prove you are the newest owner so get a bill of sale from your friend. These new papers issued to you will be certified/notorized by the JC and you can then use those to get her inspected and approved in the warmblood registry of your choice. You may have to prove trail of ownership from their last owner of record on file to you.

            I had a TB mare sent to me as well with lost papers, but it was easier for me because I got a bill of sale from the last owner who was recorded as being the owner at the Jockey Club, and so it was easy.

            I might suggest you try to approve her at the toughest warmblood registries first - such as American Hanoverian Association, GOV, KWPN NA, or ISR/Old NA, etc., and work you way down from there. The better the registry, the greater the recognition for her foals. Not to mention you gain valuable insight and knowledge from the judges who can provide you with possible stallion choices that might work well with her. You can have her inspected and broodmare approved with as many registries as you wish to send in fees for. Most of my mares are approved in at least 3 as I have greater stallion choices then.

            Otherwise, once your new mare has arrived on your property and you have your bill of sale in hand, then register online with the JC Interactive Registry, and transfer title of the mare over to you electronically with the Jockey Club (need to know her true registered name, and the name of her dam, and her birth year). This part is free.

            Congrats on your new horse.
            Practice! Patience! Persistence!


            • #7
              RPSI. My mare was Jockey Club eligible for registration (live cover, both parents JC registered and Breeding Certificate filed with JC by breeder but breeder never registered her). I had the Breeding Certificate and a 5 generation pedigree. I had her DNA typed through the Performance Horse Registry (at UC Davis) which verified her parentage and RPSI inspected her and entered her in their Main Mare Book 1.

              If you know her name and have her 5 generation pedigree just register her with the Performance Horse Registry and select the DNA verification option. They will send you the kit, you pull mane hair and send it to UC Davis and Davis sends results back to PHR who then issues you parentage verified papers. Hope this helps.


              • #8
                Thanks for the great info Rodawn! Sounds like you've been through it all first hand!

                I believe KWPN-NA, ATA & SWANA do not even inspect TB dams, although I think you still need the registration papers. I could be wrong - I don't play in any of those registries - but that's a thought.

                AHA and AHHA can be a little tougher to get a TB approved into, although if she's very nice, not a problem and great registries.

                BWP, GOV, Old-NA, RPSI have lots of stallion choices and will take TB mares but I think you'll need to have registration papers in hand for all.

                RPSI (book II) and the BWP auxiliary book will "inspect and include" mares without papers but they'll go into a lower book.

                What are your breeding goals? If you are looking to produce sport horses for yourself, pick the registry that is the easiest or provides the most access to the stallions you like and (this is a big one) has inspections that are reasonably close to you geographically.
                The rebel in the grey shirt


                • #9
                  An unregistered mare, bred to an approved Swedish stallion, will be granted lower but still SWB papers for the foal (there are different books). I may be wrong, but I think for purposes of USDF or USEF, the resulting foal will be eligible for Swedish warmblood HOY awards... just check with the Swana office to know for sure--http://www.swanaoffice.org

                  The foals from the lower books, are still able to come for inspection (recommended, but not actually required). The high-scoring foal at the Washington state inspection, this year, was from an unregistered dutch dam (papers were lost).

                  Hope this helps,

                  Best wishes,


                  Mary Baechler


                  • #10
                    We see unregistered and unpapered TB mares from time to time at our Oldenburg (GOV) inspections. They are accepted into the lowest mare book (Pre-Mare Book II). Their foals by approved stallions receive regular registration papers and are eligible for the Foal of Distinction award, but not the Premium Foal Award. In addition, colts are not eligible to be considered for stallion status, and it will take 4 generations for their filly descendants to move up to Main Mare Book status.

                    For the registered but non-papered mares - IF the paper trail gets straightened out and the owner manages to secure official paperwork for the mare, she could be moved up in the mare books according to her inspection scores.


                    • #11
                      I believe that RPSI will take the equineline report of pedigree, or maybe you have to go the PHR route? But either way, I've known someone who couldn't get her hands on the original papaers but was able to approve her RPSI. Now that I think about it, this same mare might also be approved Old NA. The KWPN people would be good to ask, as they don't require inspection of TB mares. Good luck, how nice of you to give her a home.


                      • #12
                        Her foals by any RID or RIDSH stallion would be fully eligible to be registered and inspected as Irish Draught Sport Horses with IDHSNA.
                        Ainninn House Stud
                        Irish Draughts and Connemaras
                        Co. Westmeath, Ireland


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Waterwitch View Post
                          Her foals by any RID or RIDSH stallion would be fully eligible to be registered and inspected as Irish Draught Sport Horses with IDHSNA.
                          Yup, Sophie is out of an unregistered mare and the inspectors really liked her
                          I wasn't always a Smurf
                          Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                          "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                          The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by goodmorning View Post
                            Now that I think about it, this same mare might also be approved Old NA.

                            I'm pretty sure that you need their JC papers for Old NA and they need to be inspected (and get a certain score) to be put in the Main Mare book. I think we also sent off DNA. But they did seem to generally like TB mares. I presented mine with her filly by her side (got them both inspected at the same time).
                            ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **