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COLOR BREEDERS: Silver Dapple (Z gene) in Warmbloods

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  • COLOR BREEDERS: Silver Dapple (Z gene) in Warmbloods

    It is reputed to exist, but I have searched the internet high and low and have not been able to find any examples.

    Does anyone here know of any true European Warmblood horses in which this color gene is exhibited?

    In another forum, the stallion Revenge (Animo x Burggraaf) is mentioned, but I can not find any pictures of him.

    The stallion Paddox was also mentioned, but looking at his picture he does not appear silver dapple to me.

    Any insight is greatly appreciated!

    Talia

    www.silverequine.com
    We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

  • #2
    Please be aware that I know nothing of such things, but your question interested me so I had a bit of a Google. Which you have probably done as well. Anyway, I found this cute little guy , and thought I would pass it on to you in case you hadn't found it already.

    Comment


    • #3
      http://www.kwpn.nl/html/uitslagen/20.../revengew.html

      Ha! Got him.

      ETA: Larger pic here - under jumping stallions. Not sure he is silver dapple though.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Thank you!

        That colt DEFINITELY looks silver! It's weird though because neither his sire nor dam seem to carry silver... Could be a fluke!

        Revenge definitely doesn't look silver though.

        Thanks so much for posting those links!
        We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

        Comment


        • #5
          Corland is grey...who knows what's under there?

          Comment


          • #6
            Its amazing when being really bad at speaking Dutch comes in handy lol.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by eqsiu View Post
              Corland is grey...who knows what's under there?
              Yes, he is gray, but it appears that his points were quite black. There would be signs of dilution in the points if he was a silver carrier. Of course, sometimes other color genes can impact the effects of silver. (For instance, if a silver carrier also carries cream, they usually have a self colored mane as opposed to the typical flaxen.) I would never say it was impossible, just not very likely!

              I also looked at pics of a number of Corland's other foals. None of them appear to be silver. Very interesting!
              We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

              Comment


              • #8
                I have a Google addiction

                I found this guy described as a chocolate palomino, related to the dam through Silvio II.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Now, THAT is an interesting color... Could very well be silver. Some of his foals look like they could be too. How exciting! Scottishgirl, you are making my day... Your google skills far exceed mine it seems!
                  We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TaliaCristianna View Post
                    Yes, he is gray, but it appears that his points were quite black.

                    Grey sometimes does gunky stuff to the base color as they turn. My chestnut gone grey had black hairs on his lower legs once the grey really hit. Perhaps something like that?

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by eqsiu View Post
                      Grey sometimes does gunky stuff to the base color as they turn. My chestnut gone grey had black hairs on his lower legs once the grey really hit. Perhaps something like that?
                      I definitely hear you there. I once had a light palomino that went gray. One year he shed out to reveal dappled liver chestnut legs and hindquarters! He seemed to change color every year.

                      What truly leads me to believe he probably isn't silver is the lack of any other silver looking foals. (Although they are all quite nice even without silver...)
                      We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TaliaCristianna View Post
                        Now, THAT is an interesting color... Could very well be silver. Some of his foals look like they could be too. How exciting! Scottishgirl, you are making my day... Your google skills far exceed mine it seems!
                        QUITE interesting. There is almost no way that horse is Palomino in any way shape or form. Not one of his foals appear to have gotten creme. While it is possible that he could and just did not pass it yet. I believe that it is too big of a chance that he just does not have the creme gene.

                        That being said he could just be plain old Bay with frosting that bays sometimes get. I will post this on horsegroomingsupplies and see what is said.
                        Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
                        http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          this is the choccy-ish palomino-ish's mother(or a bit of her anyway lol). (from here)
                          Last edited by scottishgirl; Jan. 29, 2008, 04:01 PM. Reason: ish's!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Iregina, the dam of Osilvio (the apparent Silver Bay, and he sure looks it) looks to be brown - sooty brown? Osilvio's sire certainly isn't Silver at all - just a bay. If you go to Osilivio's site, and to the Sales Barn, scrolling way down there's a "Ghost" foal who also looks Silver.
                            ______________________________
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Wow, beautiful color there as well. I'm a complete sucker for dapples!
                              We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by JB View Post
                                If you go to Osilivio's site, and to the Sales Barn, scrolling way down there's a "Ghost" foal who also looks Silver.
                                Prix D'Amie by Osilvis also looks silver.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I now see ghost. But he does not look bay to me. No black points on the legs or on the ears or even the brown that you would see with silver diluting it. I passed him by because he appears to me to be flaxen chestnut.
                                  Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
                                  http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by JB View Post
                                    Iregina, the dam of Osilvio (the apparent Silver Bay, and he sure looks it) looks to be brown - sooty brown? Osilvio's sire certainly isn't Silver at all - just a bay. If you go to Osilivio's site, and to the Sales Barn, scrolling way down there's a "Ghost" foal who also looks Silver.
                                    There is definitely something going on with his color to be sure. I noticed Ghost on his foals page, and Prix D'Amie too...

                                    The problem is, if Osilvio IS silver, the gene should be evident on one of his parents since they are both black based. Silver hides on red based horses, but not black based.

                                    Maybe he is carrying some weird, undescovered recessive color gene? Perhaps it's a mutation of whatever gene causes gray manes & tails on bays at times... When I first saw his picture, it struck me as how his mane appears to be more gray to me then flaxen.
                                    We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Tell me if Im being boring

                                      http://www.zfdp.de/erg-kreuth06.php See spaceman also by Silvio II described as being Palomino - cant see it myself though. Another odd colour from that family nonetheless.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Also, neither Ghost nor Prix D'Amie have the typical "dark points" that usually come with being a silver bay.
                                        We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

                                        Comment

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