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COLOR BREEDERS: Silver Dapple (Z gene) in Warmbloods

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  • #41
    The WBs thought palomino all look chestnut to me. The bay looks well bay.

    Sabino can turn dilute dark coats too making for example a seal brown look like a grulla (except no dun parent!), turn manes/tails on bays to flaxen, straw colored, grey, silver, or white. Most often seen on younger horses, tends to grow out with age. Very common in TBs (and thus any breed with TB blood!) and a bit less so in Arabians. (and I'm sure other breeds too, I just watch TBs mainly! =)
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

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    • #42
      I have a Hanoverian gelding that I bred that I think is a silver dapple (?) He is by Wildcard out of a mare with Lundberg/Wenzel bloodlines. I have no idea where the coloring came from. Sire is liver chestnut and dam is dark bay. Neither exhibit any signs of silver dapple.
      My colt was born silver/grey (the most grey foal I have ever seen) with a dark grey/white tail. Now that he is 2, his coat color is a very dark chocolate brown (almost black) with slightly lighter brown (almost dark rust colored) legs. He has lots of blonde hair in his ears and a little bit of blonde at the ends of his mane. His tail is silver/white with some dark hairs in the center. He does not have any black on him - his legs are definitely brown with the faint webbing pattern on them.
      Here are some pictures on his webpage.
      http://www.foxwoodhanoverians.com/warlockpics.html
      He has a full sister that is a regular dark bay, but does have the blonde in her ears just like him.
      Let me know what you think!
      Eliza
      www.foxwoodhanoverians.com

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      • #43
        Originally posted by ticofuzzy View Post
        I have a Hanoverian gelding that I bred that I think is a silver dapple (?) He is by Wildcard out of a mare with Lundberg/Wenzel bloodlines. I have no idea where the coloring came from. Sire is liver chestnut and dam is dark bay. Neither exhibit any signs of silver dapple.
        My colt was born silver/grey (the most grey foal I have ever seen) with a dark grey/white tail. Now that he is 2, his coat color is a very dark chocolate brown (almost black) with slightly lighter brown (almost dark rust colored) legs. He has lots of blonde hair in his ears and a little bit of blonde at the ends of his mane. His tail is silver/white with some dark hairs in the center. He does not have any black on him - his legs are definitely brown with the faint webbing pattern on them.
        Here are some pictures on his webpage.
        http://www.foxwoodhanoverians.com/warlockpics.html
        He has a full sister that is a regular dark bay, but does have the blonde in her ears just like him.
        Let me know what you think!
        Pictures are not a good quality to judge color form. And foals cahnge color lot. But I will say that I think he is most likely flaxen liver chestnut. But good pictures could easily change that.
        Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
        http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

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        • #44
          Originally posted by summerhorse View Post
          The WBs thought palomino all look chestnut to me. The bay looks well bay.

          Sabino can turn dilute dark coats too making for example a seal brown look like a grulla (except no dun parent!), turn manes/tails on bays to flaxen, straw colored, grey, silver, or white. Most often seen on younger horses, tends to grow out with age. Very common in TBs (and thus any breed with TB blood!) and a bit less so in Arabians. (and I'm sure other breeds too, I just watch TBs mainly! =)
          Sabino does not cause that. It is a different gene they dont know what one but it is not sabino. The white/flaxen/gray stuff you see on bays is called frosting. It is not caused by sabino.
          Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
          http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/

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          • Original Poster

            #45
            Originally posted by ticofuzzy View Post
            I have a Hanoverian gelding that I bred that I think is a silver dapple (?) He is by Wildcard out of a mare with Lundberg/Wenzel bloodlines. I have no idea where the coloring came from. Sire is liver chestnut and dam is dark bay. Neither exhibit any signs of silver dapple.
            My colt was born silver/grey (the most grey foal I have ever seen) with a dark grey/white tail. Now that he is 2, his coat color is a very dark chocolate brown (almost black) with slightly lighter brown (almost dark rust colored) legs. He has lots of blonde hair in his ears and a little bit of blonde at the ends of his mane. His tail is silver/white with some dark hairs in the center. He does not have any black on him - his legs are definitely brown with the faint webbing pattern on them.
            Here are some pictures on his webpage.
            http://www.foxwoodhanoverians.com/warlockpics.html
            He has a full sister that is a regular dark bay, but does have the blonde in her ears just like him.
            Let me know what you think!
            Hi Liza, it is impossible to tell from the pics, but based off of your description I'd say there is a chance your boy may be silver. His tail does appear to reflect the dark roots that are sometimes typical with the gene. I would love to see more pictures of him in better light! Also, do you have pics of his sire and/or dam? I searched for photos of Wildcard but can't find any truly good shots of him.

            You should go to www.silverequine.com and check out the "silver characteristics" page. See if any of the photos there are reminiscent of your boy.

            If all else fails, have him tested! horsetesting.com has a $25 silver test. If you do that I'd go ahead and test for red factor & agouti too.
            We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

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            • #46
              Hi, I've just stumbled across this old post in my search for other people with silver dapples. I have 3x KWPN mares that are all DNA tested to carry the silver dapple gene who are in foal. The silver dapple is so rare in larger breeds these days so we are trying to amass breeding stock. Has anyone come across a true silver dapple horse stallion?

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              • #47
                Most of the horses posted here look bay or chestnut to me (the stallions mentioned early on)....not silver or any cream dilute.

                I think most people don't understand the silver gene and what it does & doesn't do to certain colors.
                Here is an excellent website regarding silver:
                http://www.silverdapplemorgansproject.com/

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by silver dapple UK View Post
                  Hi, I've just stumbled across this old post in my search for other people with silver dapples. I have 3x KWPN mares that are all DNA tested to carry the silver dapple gene who are in foal. The silver dapple is so rare in larger breeds these days so we are trying to amass breeding stock. Has anyone come across a true silver dapple horse stallion?
                  The QH breed has a few. The late Champ's Guthrie was one, and he has a Silver son now.

                  It's not prevalent in the Gypsy Vanners, though still not by any means uncommon.

                  It's not uncommon either in the Morgan breed.

                  Originally posted by vtdobes View Post
                  Most of the horses posted here look bay or chestnut to me (the stallions mentioned early on)....not silver or any cream dilute.

                  I think most people don't understand the silver gene and what it does & doesn't do to certain colors.
                  Here is an excellent website regarding silver:
                  http://www.silverdapplemorgansproject.com/
                  But the thing about Silver is it can be quite good, to the uneducated eye, at making a bay look like a funky chestnut. It doesn't even have to really change the color at all.

                  Here's a tested Silver
                  http://www.willowbendfarm.com/Golden.html
                  ______________________________
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by silver dapple UK View Post
                    Hi, I've just stumbled across this old post in my search for other people with silver dapples. I have 3x KWPN mares that are all DNA tested to carry the silver dapple gene who are in foal. The silver dapple is so rare in larger breeds these days so we are trying to amass breeding stock. Has anyone come across a true silver dapple horse stallion?
                    Can you show us pictures and what is their pedigree?
                    Gwendolyn
                    http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
                    Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by JB View Post

                      But the thing about Silver is it can be quite good, to the uneducated eye, at making a bay look like a funky chestnut. It doesn't even have to really change the color at all.

                      Here's a tested Silver
                      http://www.willowbendfarm.com/Golden.html
                      Why don't they mention that he is verified buckskin silver?

                      Lots of photos here of silvers including a couple buckskin silvers.
                      http://www.morgancolors.com/silverdapple.htm

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                      • #51
                        I don't know, ask them? LOL The website or that page appears to be a bit out of date. Perhaps they have not updated it since the results?
                        ______________________________
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                        • #52
                          I'm curious as to what would cause this white in the tail of an otherwise very bay horse.

                          http://www.minutemannewscenter.com/a...1319517345.txt

                          (This is Vocas, and I wish I'd found a better shot to show his tail. But you can see the white there just barely).

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                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Mara View Post
                            I'm curious as to what would cause this white in the tail of an otherwise very bay horse.

                            http://www.minutemannewscenter.com/a...1319517345.txt

                            (This is Vocas, and I wish I'd found a better shot to show his tail. But you can see the white there just barely).
                            Isn't that "Gulastra Plume"?

                            http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...9QEwAQ&dur=547
                            www.sauconycreeksporthorses.com
                            Dedicated to breeding Friesian Sporthorses
                            with world class pedigrees and sport suitability

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                            • #54
                              I am not sure what a silver dapple is..but I saw a warmblood gelding last weekend that was a normal bay color but literally had a white tail. He was not grey, both parents are bay. He is Westfalian. What the heck color is that?

                              Oh, I see I just posted the same question as the above poster at the same time. Here is the link to the gelding I saw :

                              http://www.krammerwarmbloods.com/sale.htm

                              Scroll down to "Logan".
                              www.svhanoverians.com

                              "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.

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                              • #55
                                Originally posted by jdeboer01 View Post
                                Not quite - it's more like a big skunk stripe in his tail.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #56
                                  Originally posted by silver dapple UK View Post
                                  Hi, I've just stumbled across this old post in my search for other people with silver dapples. I have 3x KWPN mares that are all DNA tested to carry the silver dapple gene who are in foal. The silver dapple is so rare in larger breeds these days so we are trying to amass breeding stock. Has anyone come across a true silver dapple horse stallion?
                                  The popularity of silver is growing slowly but surely here in the US. I have silver breeding stock but they are not warmbloods. My mares are Paints and my young stallion is an appendix (half-thoroughbred) Quarter Horse.

                                  http://www.silverspringfarm.net/andretti.html

                                  I did just export a silver bay part-Trakehner filly to Germany this year. You can see her at the bottom of my sales page. I believe her new owner is going to work towards putting some fully approved silver warmbloods on the ground.

                                  http://www.silverspringfarm.net/sales.html

                                  I am planning on breeding my silver dapple mare, Bella, to Sir Oldenburg next year. The foal will have a 50% chance of being silver dapple.
                                  Last edited by TaliaCristianna; Jun. 21, 2011, 10:25 AM.
                                  We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

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                                  • Original Poster

                                    #57
                                    Originally posted by Mara View Post
                                    I'm curious as to what would cause this white in the tail of an otherwise very bay horse.

                                    http://www.minutemannewscenter.com/a...1319517345.txt

                                    (This is Vocas, and I wish I'd found a better shot to show his tail. But you can see the white there just barely).
                                    That is likely rabicano. Does the white seem to originate from the sides of the tail, like this guy?

                                    http://www.zohararabians.com/zhr/ima.../100_1649a.jpg
                                    We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson

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                                    • #58
                                      We love our Silver Buckskin pony mare We find out if she is in foal to Escapade at the end of this week.
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                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Donella View Post
                                        I am not sure what a silver dapple is..but I saw a warmblood gelding last weekend that was a normal bay color but literally had a white tail. He was not grey, both parents are bay. He is Westfalian. What the heck color is that?

                                        Oh, I see I just posted the same question as the above poster at the same time. Here is the link to the gelding I saw :

                                        http://www.krammerwarmbloods.com/sale.htm

                                        Scroll down to "Logan".
                                        I think that's gulastra plume. He doesn't look rabicano from the pictures.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by TaliaCristianna View Post
                                          That is likely rabicano. Does the white seem to originate from the sides of the tail, like this guy?

                                          http://www.zohararabians.com/zhr/ima.../100_1649a.jpg
                                          I really wish I could find a better pic -

                                          It's just a big chunk of white in an otherwise dark tail, originating from the dock. It has clearly defined edges. It's almost like someone took a white fake tail and stuck it into the real one.

                                          If it helps, he's Dutch Warmblood by Hors La Loi out of a Voltaire mare. I've been obsessed with this horse since I saw him in January! McLain Ward rides.

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