Secretariat's damline for sport, n'est pas???

[Justa Bob]

Viney - A fabulous post. Bravo!

[AppJumpr08]

Seriously, and before the book, could we just have some short courses available... you know, weekend long gatherings in nice locations for groups of 6-10 people, with good wine and lots of equine intellect!

Say the word and I will buy a plane ticket!

Oh huge ditto to that!!!

[vineyridge]

Thanks for the compliments. They are greatly appreciated.

I just found a standing Olden Times line stallion in Nebraska. He's a 1995 model named Fighting Fantasy. Stud fee is $750. He's a very outcross stallion. I'd expect him to be rather small, but his sire, Fighting Fit, was gorgeous.

[selah]

Look at this beautiful girl on the CANTER Ohio (Northern Trainer listings) site:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/foxy+kiki

http://www.canterusa.org/index.php?o...&directory=277

She has the usual No. D etc, but also Caro on top, Olden Times on bottom, and a German & French line.

Question...would you double Olden Times?

[vineyridge]

She's a Running Stag! I love him. Gorgeous horse, raced until he was seven or eight and got better every year. He won the Hong Kong Cup when he was seven or eight. He raced all over the world. One of the most promising of sires for sport and general TB soundness who got sent to Korea because his get mature too slowly for our racing industry.

Djebel is doubled in her pedigree. She's got all three foundation sires plainly visible on her page.

Would I double Olden Times? Yup, I would, knowing that the size might be on the small side.

[AppJumpr08]

A mare just retired from racing here in New England who doubles to Relic - once through Olden Times and once though Mystic II - Ask Queenie

She is the sweetheart of New England racing - Massbred and won many Massbred stakes races. I'd love to find a broodmare with Mystic II at some point.

[selah]

Speaking of size in the TB...I ran across this deceased JC stallion who is said to have been 19.1 H
http://www.equinereproduction.com/st...what/index.php

http://www.pedigreequery.com/similar+somewhat

Where would the height have come from, and would it be heritable?
Of course he is only available frozen, so no JC reg.

[vineyridge]

It was probably a genetic defect. Something like Marfan's syndrome in people.

[selah]

It was probably a genetic defect. Something like Marfan's syndrome in people.

...which is heritable...aargh...good thing there's still frozen available

[RacetrackReject]

Thanks Viney! That is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.

[frequentflyer2]

This is very educational thread and I do want to know more about use of Secretariat. Can you please make comments and thoughts on this breeding
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/im+the+master
Thank you

[farmgirl88]

I always loved Secretariat as a thought of a sport horse type of sire. Its a shame most of his descendants never were used for the purpose or at least thought to be used/bred for the purpose. Maybe because he was *The* Secretariat and should be passing his bloodlines on to the race arena only.

Just looking at his conformation makes me quiver....it boggles my mind that no one has thought of him for sport horse before and his bloodlines are something quite desired.

He is simply lovely and i think he would make a tremendous compliment to sport horse breeding. best of luck!

[farmgirl88]

FYI :

There is a living, breeding stallion by Secretariat and out of a mare by Alydar standing at stud in Ohio at Cranberry Creek Stables

WORLD ORDER 2010
Secretariat-Majestic Folly
Partnership
Stud Fee: $700
Cranberry Creek Stables
2731 S. River Road
Cedarville, Ohio 45314
937-767-2050
e-mail: hbrown@co.greene.oh.us

[farmgirl88]

there is also a Secretariat son standing in Oklahoma according to what i googled:

Santiago Red

Stallion Info: Breeding Fee: $1,500;

Location: Oklahoma Stud Ranch; Milt Alderman, Ranch Manager; Purcell, OK; 73080; 405-527-2188;

[farmgirl88]

there was also a daughter and long-time broodmare that needed a home ASAP here in 2008 she was $600.00

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...ap-179304.html

[farmgirl88]

there is also one more stallion called COuntry Side standing:

Country Side for breeding at $1,500 per visit at Diamond J Farms in Needville, TX. He has fathered 107 foals, including 47 thoroughbreds. Five more foals will be born by next spring.

this is him:

http://www.diamondjfarms.com/country.html


photos of him at age 25

http://www.diamondjfarms.com/country25.html

[lesson junkie]

Back to the mares-the great QH Dash for Cash and Secretariat have a very similar damline, don't they?

Is there any detail information about Christopher Chenery's breeding theory, especially in picking mares? That much success so quick can't just be luck.

[Fred]

As always, viney, I enjoy reading your posts, and appreciate greatly you sharing your knowlege with us. Thank you!!

Somethingroyal - I'd always be happy to see her in a pedigree, what a great mare - to have produced both Secretariat and Sir Gaylord...
And as far as people not considering Secretariat as a sport horse horse sire - I've always valued him - that conformation, pedigree, and athleticism? - can anyone question that the horse would have been able to jump?

It's interesting to think of A Fine Romance as an outcross sire, but he was the last foal of an old mare,(who raced 61 times, and some of whose siblings ran over 100 times!) and from the second to last crop of his sire, with no ND and no Mr P.

What makes it harder in NA to avoid ND AND MRP in the same pedigree,is that for a while in racing it was the nick du jour, and if you couldn't afford ND or MrP, then it was sons of either to daughters of either etc.
And I can remember an article in either Bloodhorse or Thoroughbred Record discussing the fact that by crossing these two lines we (TB breeders) were breeding for unsoundness.

[vineyridge]

Leyland, Amy Tryon's current Upper Level ride, is out of a Secretariat mare line from a Fappiano line sire. Damsire is the ND son, The Ministrel. But he also has Never Bend and Graustark, among others. They were short listed for the eventing squad at the WEGs this year. I forget his registered name off the bat, but it's something like Le Roy's Boy. Just goes to show that the ND/Mr. P crosses can be talented.

I would guess that he might be tough to keep in competition shape. But he might not be.

[RacetrackReject]

A girl I used to ride with owned http://www.pedigreequery.com/just+a+shot+away (unraced Secretariat grandson)

He did well in many disciplines at once, eventing, dressage, hunters, jumpers, but developed anhydrosis here in Texas and I believe was sold up north. I wish I would have kept up with him as he was a wonderful sporthorse and pony club mount for his young rider. I believe she was 12 when she got him and he was 3, but you would not have known he was 3. He was a big chesnut with a lovely Roman nose, which I know is a personal taste thing, but I thought it looked handsome on him.