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Hanoverian mare inspection questions- more questions and video added post 17

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  • Hanoverian mare inspection questions- more questions and video added post 17

    Hi,
    I looked at the AHS website but my computer is not letting me download the pdf about the free jumping requirements. I did see that there are 3 jumps set on a 21 foot stride-wow! So are they supposed to gallop them? Also how high are they required to jump so I can practice? Does anyone know where the closest inspection is to SE VA? Thank you!
    Last edited by mpsbarnmanager; Nov. 24, 2010, 03:14 PM.
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fentre...24774504235082

    http://fentressfieldsequestriancenter.com/

  • #2
    There is one at Morven Park in Leesburg Nov 7th and 8th... There are a couple of posts about it in this forum and info on the AHS site.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mpsbarnmanager View Post
      Hi,
      I looked at the AHS website but my computer is not letting me download the pdf about the free jumping requirements. I did see that there are 3 jumps set on a 21 foot stride-wow! So are they supposed to gallop them? Also how high are they required to jump so I can practice? Does anyone know where the closest inspection is to SE VA? Thank you!
      That cannot be right; I just emailed the AHS asking about that statement on their website.

      You might PM Bent Hickory as he is very knowledgeable about the jumping part of the test and is active in the AHS jumper breeding program.

      Also, I recommend their freejumping DVD how to:

      http://www.hanoverian.org/marketplace/store.shtml#MPT
      Roseknoll Sporthorses
      www.roseknoll.net

      Comment


      • #4
        Three fences in a chute, set up initially as crossrails, at 21' from first to second and 22' from second to third. The first fence is about two strides in from beginning of chute, generally led in at trot before releasing. The second fence is raised as a single and eventually raised to about 2'9" (where I leave it at least at home), the third is raised as an oxer and eventually raised as high and wide as the inspector wants to see how the horse performs. It can go as high as 5' but generally goes to about 4'3" or so for good jumpers and a lot less for those not so good. I never school at home to more than about 3'6" and leave the bigger fence for the actual MPT. One of my mares never schooled higher than about 3'3" and rarely that, but went to 4'3" or so in the MPT and won the free jumping portion. I hope this helps. I think it's important to make it fun when practicing and don't overdo it. I never use whips at home, just treats, and have a jumping chute along a pasture fence where the end faces another pasture where I stick all the buddies. There is real incentive then to get to the other end. This is just what I do. Others probably do it differently!

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Thank you everyone, that makes sense!
          http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fentre...24774504235082

          http://fentressfieldsequestriancenter.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Here is the AHS article with the specs on the freejumping chute: http://www.hanoverian.org/ahs_media/...PT_article.pdf

            The above explanations are very good, but I want to point out the distances that we typically use at the inspections: the distance between first and second fences is set at 22'6" (6.8m) and the distance between the second and third fences is set at 23'1" (7.0m).

            Typically, we start with three cross-rails and eventually move up to cross-rail, small oxer, and larger oxer. I've seen the last fence go to 4'9" with a solid 4'+ spread. On occasion, I've also seen the judging committee change the last oxer to a vertical to see how careful the mare is (typically, to test a really super mare).

            As Diane pointed out, these are not "bounces" (though we occasionally have confident mares that successfully attempt them as such) but one strides. Mares can come in to the first fence at any gait -- it all depends on the horse and what they need to find the spot to the last fence. Confident mares probably need to come in slower (even from a standstill one stride out) and quieter mares might need to come in at a trot or even canter.
            "I always remember you as quite the desk chair contrarian." - APirateLooksAtForty

            Comment


            • #7
              Just to clarify, though, technically I believe that 21 feet between fences is not the same thing as saying a line is set on a 21 foot stride. I think that was the source of confusion. I suspected what they meant was 21 feet between fences.
              Last edited by YankeeLawyer; Sep. 14, 2010, 03:09 PM.
              Roseknoll Sporthorses
              www.roseknoll.net

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes distance; not strides.
                "I always remember you as quite the desk chair contrarian." - APirateLooksAtForty

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Thanks for all the great info. I inquire because I have a 17 yo reg TB mare I want to breed to a hanoverian stallion next spring. I would like to get her approved if I can so her foal could be registered. Just wanted to know what the norm was first. I think ill go watch one before we go. The in hand part is basically a showmanship class, right? Also, this mare had an injury to her withers as a 5 yo, they are now pretty high and weird looking, can I explain that so we don't get docked in confo or are we just screwed there?
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mpsbarnmanager View Post
                    Thanks for all the great info. I inquire because I have a 17 yo reg TB mare I want to breed to a hanoverian stallion next spring. I would like to get her approved if I can so her foal could be registered. Just wanted to know what the norm was first. I think ill go watch one before we go. The in hand part is basically a showmanship class, right? Also, this mare had an injury to her withers as a 5 yo, they are now pretty high and weird looking, can I explain that so we don't get docked in confo or are we just screwed there?
                    I recommend contacting Hugh Bellis-Jones in the AHS office with any questions as he is incredibly helpful. Regarding the withers issue, I personally would bring an explanatory note from the vet. Also, TB mare are eligible for Studbook upon completion of the inspection (in-hand) with satisfactory scores, and studbook mares can upgrade to main studbook upon successful completion of the MPT. I am not sure whether the mare has to be main studbook (as opposed to just studbook) for a foal to be registered AHS (though the mare must be MS or better for any of her sons to be eligible for stallion licensing).

                    http://www.hanoverian.org/mares/TBmares.shtml

                    Finally, I highly recommend hiring a professional handler to present the mare in hand. I have competed horses for many years and there is no way I would attempt to present any of mine unassisted. Professional handling makes a very big difference in almost all cases.
                    Roseknoll Sporthorses
                    www.roseknoll.net

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by YankeeLawyer View Post
                      I am not sure whether the mare has to be main studbook (as opposed to just studbook) for a foal to be registered AHS (though the mare must be MS or better for any of her sons to be eligible for stallion licensing).

                      http://www.hanoverian.org/mares/TBmares.shtml
                      YL gives you good advice. However, both studbook and main studbook TB mares can have foals registered. The advantage of being main studbook (7.0 or higher on inspection and 7.0 or higher on MPT) is that if the mare has a filly foal, that foal could potentially move into the Elite mare book (based on inspection and MPT). Plus, passing the MPT gives a lot of credibility to the TB mare and I have found, at least for my TB mare, that I could sell her foals for just as easily and for similar amounts, as my full WB mares because of her passing the MPT
                      Kris
                      www.edgewoodmeadowfarm.com
                      Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/edgewoodmeadowfarm

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                      • #12
                        Yes, I was remembering wrongly about the distances. Rick is right on: 22'6" and 23'1". So sorry, I'm just getting old - ugh!

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          The more I think about getting her inspected, the more I worry it might be a wast of time. I am thinking they don't get many older mares, and my mare does show it. She is plenty energetic and very capable of work, but you can tell she is not a 5 yo anymore. The only conformation "flaw" she has is that she is ever so slightly sickle hocked. Other than that, everything else is what I would call a blemish. Things that are not passed into a foal. She has the wither bump weirdness thing, a hunter bump, a capped elbow that the fluid is mostly gone out of and now it is just wrinkly skin and looks weird. She also has a scar on her face from an unknown injury that left her missing a chunk of bone under her right eye that did heal well. Also her back has dropped with time, it was not always droopy.

                          I posted a link to pics for all of you to tell me if these things are deal breakers.

                          Also, How much does hiring a handler cost? Thanks a ton everyone!

                          Here she is in all her flabby, out of work glory!
                          http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/th...NAME=snapfish/
                          http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fentre...24774504235082

                          http://fentressfieldsequestriancenter.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mpsbarnmanager View Post
                            The more I think about getting her inspected, the more I worry it might be a wast of time. I am thinking they don't get many older mares, and my mare does show it. She is plenty energetic and very capable of work, but you can tell she is not a 5 yo anymore. The only conformation "flaw" she has is that she is ever so slightly sickle hocked. Other than that, everything else is what I would call a blemish. Things that are not passed into a foal. She has the wither bump weirdness thing, a hunter bump, a capped elbow that the fluid is mostly gone out of and now it is just wrinkly skin and looks weird. She also has a scar on her face from an unknown injury that left her missing a chunk of bone under her right eye that did heal well. Also her back has dropped with time, it was not always droopy.
                            I posted a link to pics for all of you to tell me if these things are deal breakers.

                            Also, How much does hiring a handler cost? Thanks a ton everyone!

                            Here she is in all her flabby, out of work glory!
                            http://www2.snapfish.com/snapfish/th...NAME=snapfish/
                            The photos mainly show some cosmetic blemishes but none really give a good sense of her overall conformation. As for the cosmetic blemishes, they should not be a deal breaker. I would bring a vet note about the withers. The other things are obvious injury. The elbow looks like the remnants of a shoe boil. I strongly recommend that you get a fetlock ring for that leg; shoe boils frequently are caused by friction from the horse's foot when they lie down and curl up to sleep. The fetlock ring prevents that type of abrasion. (One of my horses has to wear a ring while stalled for that reason).

                            She does look fine boned in the legs and slightly sickle hocked, but the hind legs are only one score. The dealbreaker for TBs typically is on the movement scoring - if they lack suspension, the inspectors will likely be tough on them. Conversely, I have seen poorly conformed but good moving TBs score the requisite 7 to make stud book on more than one occasion. And when I say poorly conformed, I mean obvious issues like a serious ewe neck, weak loin, and/or leg faults. And on occasion I have seen the inspectors be a lot stingier with 7s for Hanoverian mares than non-Hanoverians, including TBs, that are presented (although historically the perception has been they are tougher on TBs).

                            Obviously, this is just my opinion based on what I have observed. If I were you, I probably would present her for inspection and bag the MPT *unless* she is already at a point in her training where the prep for the MPT is not too arduous. I absolutely do think it is worth it to make sure the foal is eligible for registration with one of the recognized registries.

                            Regarding the price for handlers, it varies, but I usually pay $50 to $100 per run. (The lower price is when I also have paid for prep and other services so I am not sure if it would be more "just" for handling at the inspection).
                            Roseknoll Sporthorses
                            www.roseknoll.net

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There was a 19 y/o Thoroughbred mare at the Spruce Meadows Hanoverian inspection a week ago that made it to the studbook (not the main mare book). I honestly thought that she would not make it, but Dr.Christmann said that even though she shows her age, he could see that at one point she was a good looking mare. It did help very much that her Escudo II colt at her side was quite nice and an improvement over her.

                              I would not discount your mare. I can only see that one picture of her grazing, but I would say your mare has a much better topline than the TB mare last week.
                              Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique!!!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by honeychile View Post
                                There was a 19 y/o Thoroughbred mare at the Spruce Meadows Hanoverian inspection a week ago that made it to the studbook (not the main mare book). I honestly thought that she would not make it, but Dr.Christmann said that even though she shows her age, he could see that at one point she was a good looking mare. It did help very much that her Escudo II colt at her side was quite nice and an improvement over her.

                                I would not discount your mare. I can only see that one picture of her grazing, but I would say your mare has a much better topline than the TB mare last week.
                                She wouldn't make it to the main stud book unless she passed her MPT. If a TB mare is only being inspected for studbook placement, she is ONLY eligible for the SB. A SB TB mare can be upgraded to the MSB only upon successful completion of the MPT.
                                Kim
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                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  more inspection questions

                                  1- BRAIDING. If my mare is a hunter/jumper, I assume I should braid with hunter braids and braid the tail? The pictures I am seeing are all dressage braids and unbraided tails.

                                  2- TACK. I am seeing all dressage tack in the youtube videos. Am I going to to laughed at in my hunter tack?

                                  3- HANDLERS. Can I have a handler but actually ride myself? I think my mare would be calmer and more comfortable if it was me riding. Any thoughts?

                                  4-GAITS- My mare is a good mover, but she does not have the lofty, elastic trot. She is more of a flat-kneed, daisy cutter type mover. Is that going to be a problem?

                                  5- I was looking at the 2009 MPT results from 2009, and saw only one TB who had a final score of 7.16 and under test outcome it said performance record. Does that mean she was not approved?

                                  Here is a video of her free jumping for the first time in a long time the other day. Sorry it is so shakey, I was taking the video on my phone while I was guiding her, but there is a little trotting in there. I will get a better video tomorrow. Thanks!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dInrI..._order&list=UL
                                  Last edited by mpsbarnmanager; Nov. 23, 2010, 09:52 PM.
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                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by mpsbarnmanager View Post
                                    1- BRAIDING. If my mare is a hunter/jumper, I assume I should braid with hunter braids and braid the tail? The pictures I am seeing are all dressage braids and unbraided tails.
                                    You can do hunter braids, but it is best to leave the tail unbraided

                                    2- TACK. I am seeing all dressage tack in the youtube videos. Am I going to to laughed at in my hunter tack?
                                    No, you can show in hunter tack if you want. But remember that the MPT is more like a dressage test, so make sure that your mare is prepared appropriately. But I have seen mares do well even if they were wearing hunter tack, as long as the rider presents them effectively

                                    3- HANDLERS. Can I have a handler but actually ride myself? I think my mare would be calmer and more comfortable if it was me riding. Any thoughts? That is fine if you can present your mare to her best advantage. I am an AA rider and I have successfully ridden 2 mares through the MPT with 7 or higher scores. For the last mare, who was younger, I did have a professional ride her.

                                    4-GAITS- My mare is a good mover, but she does not have the lofty, elastic trot. She is more of a flat-kneed, daisy cutter type mover. Is that going to be a problem? As long as she is still quite elastic, she should still get a good score. However, flat movement and non-elastic will be graded more harshly
                                    I added my comments in BOLD
                                    Kris
                                    www.edgewoodmeadowfarm.com
                                    Like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/edgewoodmeadowfarm

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                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Thanks, Edgewood!
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