• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Spinoff - would you breed this mare?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Spinoff - would you breed this mare?

    Don't want to hijack the thread about breeding a mare with questionable temperament issues, but it raised a question I've been thinking about. Mare A is a great mare - very good pedigree, performance record in sport, good conformation, great temperament, etc. Mare A produced only one foal her entire life - Mare B. Mare B is not as good quality as Mare A due to some conformational flaws (flaws not exhibited by Mare A). Since Mare A only produced the one foal, it's hard to say if it was a result of the sire/that specific cross, or if Mare A would consistently under-produce compared to herself. Would you breed Mare B?
    Friday's Child Farm
    www.fridayschildfarm.com
    www.facebook.com/fridayschildfarm

  • #2
    I wouldn't breed Mare B but might try and breed Mare A again to a different sire.
    ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

    Comment


    • #3
      Try Mare A again.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hmmmm, "Mare A produced only one foal in her entire life." Leads me to think Mare A has crossed the rainbow bridge.
        It is said one shouldn't beat a dead horse...should one attempt to breed one?!?
        http://www.selahwaysporthorses.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          LOL - too funny, i was in this EXACT situation!!

          My "Mare A" was 100% straight and correct, both of limb and movement. In fact her 2 highest scores at her mare inspection were for her front legs and her correctness of gaits.

          Her first foal, "Mare B", is extremely crooked in front, and rope walks.

          I would NEVER have bred Mare B. As much as i adored her, and hoped she would replace her mother as my broodie after a performance career, it wasn't gonna happen (she's now sold, FYI).

          In my case though, i was able to breed Mare A to a different stallion and sure enough, foal came out with lovely, correct front legs.

          Could Mare B's legs have been the result of bad positioning in utero? Very possibly. But i still wouldn't take the chance of breeding her. I'm a stickler for legs and feet, and there's just too many lovely, correct mares out there to breed a badly crooked one.

          Now, that said, you simply said your Mare B had "conformational issues" - there are lots of conformation issues that i don't consider deal-breakers by themselves: long backs, short necks, straighter shoulders, etc... most mares aren't perfect in the conformation department. But bad/crooked legs is an automatic deal-breaker for me.
          www.jlsporthorsesales.net

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by selah View Post
            Hmmmm, "Mare A produced only one foal in her entire life." Leads me to think Mare A has crossed the rainbow bridge.
            It is said one shouldn't beat a dead horse...should one attempt to breed one?!?

            LOL....welll my mare only has had one foal in her entire life....so far. She's only 10. I'm hoping for a couple more

            So I re-state....generally no to breeding Mare B (although I guess it depends on how she is flawed) and yes to breeding Mare A if she is still alive an able
            ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Unfortunately breeding Mare A again is not an option ... I got her at age 11 and she'd never had a foal before. She was a performance horse most of her life - had her one foal at age 17 (and that took 3-4 years of trying to get one pregnancy). We did try again for two more years to breed her, but she has some repro issues (age-related) and we could never even get an embryo for ET. She's now almost 25 and has earned her retirement many times over!

              Mare B's issues are her hind-end conformation ... she has a long slightly roached back and weak stifle. Also she's a heavier, older-style mare although that doesn't really bother me in the grand scheme of things. I'm really torn on this one because normally I'm a firm believer that I wouldn't breed a mare if I wouldn't be happy with a carbon copy of her ... but Mare A was/is pretty special, so part of me wants to try breeding Mare B once with a stallion known to pass on good hind end conformation (I posted about that last week) before I write her off as a broodmare. I have several months to stew on it...
              Friday's Child Farm
              www.fridayschildfarm.com
              www.facebook.com/fridayschildfarm

              Comment


              • #8
                If I were willing to keep the foal for life, regardless...

                Given the additional information, I *might* breed the daughter.

                Back in the day, we tended to give a Good (but not 'perfect' ) Mare ONE chance.

                I truly feel like this is harder to do in the light of the current economy and overabundance of unwanted horses...

                I knew an absolutely fabulous QH mare that had evented through a decently high level, done dressage through fourth, could tack up western and play quite respectably at reining or cutting or whatever you wanted to try, AND put in a very respectable hunter round in an open rated show... She also
                had The Best Temperament on the planet.

                She was also pidgeon toed wikkidly.

                But EVERYTHING else was *so* ideal. When *I* met her, she was 12, and I could not believe she had never been bred. I would take a clone of this mare, toeing in and all. But her owner--a LONG TIME breeder was very conscientious and felt the mare should not be bred due to the conformation issue.

                But the rest of the package... just To Die For.

                I asked her, if you got an EXACT CLONE of this mare, including the toes, would that be OK?

                And it definitely was. No doubt about it. In fact, there were waiting lists for this mare's foals, before they were even concieved. She went on to have I think four, and none of them inherited her legs. Had the first inherited--she never would have been bred again, but that foal would STILL have been spoken for and most likely as talented as the dam.

                I DO think it makes a difference if you're talking breeding for a performance offspring, vs. breeding for potential broodstock. Would I spend a couple $K on a stud fee hoping for another broodmare or stallion prospect? Probably not.

                Would I spend a reasonable amount on a stallion with a great hind end and a good history of improving hind ends? Probably.

                One more anecdote, related to the breeding stock that isn't 100% perfect. my Best broodie grew a funny hoof. When her feet were long, she sort of toed out. She was straight from knee to fetlock, from fetlock to pastern, but just grew really weird on that one hoof. I *think* these days it might be 'high/low syndrome, but I'm not 100% sure of that. Of eight foals, ONE inherited that. With shoes or careful, frequent barefoot trims, you didn't even notice. That ONE was a daughter. I bred her to a stallion with the best feet/legs on the planet, and a history of throwing those... of three foals ONE had The Hoof from grandma. Affects performance naught. That one was also the only pinto, most likely homozygous. I never did test him, because it just would break my heart to have such a wonderful moving, INCREDIBLE temperament, homozygous gelding.
                InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is Mare B as good of a performance horse as Mare A?

                  I'm in a somewhat similar situation.... only with sibilings. I'm going to breed the sibling once and see what I get. I have no doubt I will get a useful foal...but whether I can improve on the dam or get as nice as her siblings is the question. Her conformational flaw is slightly downhill...and a bit straight behind.
                  ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you can find other offspring by Mare B's sire, and hopefully see pics of their dams to look at either conformation or bloodlines, you may find that stallion just doesn't cross well with that conformation or certain bloodlines.

                    That might mean Mare B could be bred but with a very different type of stallion.

                    Do you have confo pics of Mare A's parents and grandparents? You're looking to see if there are issues that were passed recessively to Mare A and ended up being homozygous in Mare B so you can see them.

                    I guess my whole point is there is probably more to look at than just Mare A and B in trying to determine why B wasn't as good as A.
                    ______________________________
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X