• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Gemini Twist aka Gem Twist

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    Does anyone know anything about Paris-Texas, the clone of QDR? He was born in 2005 so should be able to have foals on the ground by now. That's one I'd be VERY interested in.
    The rebel in the grey shirt

    Comment


    • #42
      I'll admit I am not a fan of cloning, but still would like to know what is going on. Do any of these clones have foals on the ground? It would be a tidge too soon for the young Gemini I guess. I would feel the Chapots are certainly going to breed him - when? - to their/test mares? With more interest in the Bonne Nuit line than Gem Twist himself - makes sense???
      Thinking about the clones - none in particular - if one turns out to have faults - would still be bred? Well in the case of Gemini they wanted the BN bloodlines. Is it possible a clone could after all not be stallion quality?
      Be a nice horse , but if one did not know the pedigree/history would not be kept intact? One would assume a clone would not have such faults. But who really knows?

      Comment


      • #43
        Poetin's clone has had a filly
        http://www.veulenveilingprinsjesdag....emedeHusZ.html

        The first clone, Prometea, had a colt.

        Scamper's clone has produce a few foals.

        I'd bet there are a few others as well.
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

        Comment


        • #44
          It will be interesting to see what the Warmblood registries do with Gemini.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by JB View Post
            Poetin's clone has had a filly
            http://www.veulenveilingprinsjesdag....emedeHusZ.html

            The first clone, Prometea, had a colt.

            Scamper's clone has produce a few foals.

            I'd bet there are a few others as well.
            The cloned Pieraz sired a filly in 2008:

            http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2008/05/122.shtml

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by JB View Post
              That's a surrogate in the video, right?
              www.sauconycreeksporthorses.com
              Dedicated to breeding Friesian Sporthorses
              with world class pedigrees and sport suitability

              Comment


              • #47
                The cloned ET might have been the first sport horse, and he's got at least one foal from a couple of years back.
                "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                Thread killer Extraordinaire

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by JWB View Post
                  Does anyone know anything about Paris-Texas, the clone of QDR? He was born in 2005 so should be able to have foals on the ground by now. That's one I'd be VERY interested in.
                  Wow they cloned him?? Man I hope they also clone Darco, Ratina z and Royal Kaliber too. Not to mention many others!

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Found another photo of Gemini.

                    http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/...ot-Performance

                    I read the cloning article also there and was rather surprised to learn that Auburn has had some clones - but that only 43 pct were normal. The others required surgery. I admit to being embarassed after typing a prior post asking about possible defects in clones. It appears that does happen and would have to assume those foals would not be considered breeding material regardless of bloodlines.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      It has absolutely been seen that clones have more problems as newborns than the 'normal' population. It is recommended that clones are foaled out in a clinic situation as the likelihood that they will need intervention is high. Immediately and later on with angular limb issues.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                        It will be interesting to see what the Warmblood registries do with Gemini.
                        Agreed. Just pondered this with Greg Best last weekend.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by lisa View Post
                          Agreed. Just pondered this with Greg Best last weekend.
                          The problem with Gemini is that unless they accept him AS Gem Twist, and Gem Twist's papers as his, Gemini is an unregistered horse. If they accept Gem Twist's papers, he was still never inspected, so Gemini would have to go thru an inspection. Then would they accept Gem Twists performance? If one of the Warmblood registries want to give him papers, his sire and dam (Gem Twist's sire and dam) were never inspected.

                          Lots and lots of questions, one of which is do we see new rules to accomodate these types of horses?

                          and if not, do we really want to lose these bloodlines from the European registry base?

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            GT was an American horse so why on earth would you worry about putting him in a European registry?
                            Aren't the Chapots using the Continental Studbook?
                            Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think they ever bothered with any of the Euro-based registries with their other wonderful stallions.
                            Anne
                            -------
                            "Where knowledge ends violence begins." B. Ljundquist

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              I just think it would be a shame that his bloodlines could not be used all over the world. Europe is always searching for the next great TB stallion, especially the jumper people.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                                I just think it would be a shame that his bloodlines could not be used all over the world. Europe is always searching for the next great TB stallion, especially the jumper people.

                                A registry is just papers. Given that the this horse's pedigree has a lot of proven performance blood....and he is a clone of a superior performance horse....he will get more than enough people willing to breed to him regardless of registries/brands.

                                And if he does produce good jumping horses...he will get more.


                                Lack of a registry wouldn't stop me from breeding to him with the right mare.
                                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                                  A registry is just papers. Given that the this horse's pedigree has a lot of proven performance blood....and he is a clone of a superior performance horse....he will get more than enough people willing to breed to him regardless of registries/brands.

                                  And if he does produce good jumping horses...he will get more.


                                  Lack of a registry wouldn't stop me from breeding to him with the right mare.
                                  I totally agree, but it is also about his breeding value, long term to the sport, than just making money from the breedings. If he is a great sire, he is a resourse.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    I thought Zangersheide would take him, but I don't know what would be involved precisely. The practical thing would be to take him based on Gem Twist's performance record.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Harold View Post
                                      It has absolutely been seen that clones have more problems as newborns than the 'normal' population. It is recommended that clones are foaled out in a clinic situation as the likelihood that they will need intervention is high. Immediately and later on with angular limb issues.
                                      Hmm. So "epigenetics" anyone? Of course, the whole question of "what is a gene in the first place" is a problem.

                                      I'm kind of curious about the way the horse breeding world handles "genomic" breeding. So in the PH breeding issue, there is an article about clones..... and then another about the genetics of coat color. There's a huge gap in our understanding, IMO. I'm curious about what you guys think.

                                      Here's some historical stuff:

                                      One of the first ways that Mendelian geneticists tried to "sell" their knowledge as better than that of traditional students of pedigrees was to talk about coat color and promise that the genetic basis of "economic characters" (meaning the stuff people cared about like milk production in dairy cattle, rate of weight gain in meat animals) was coming soon. This was 1920 or so.

                                      So, a century later, all PH can tell us is about clones and the genetics of coat color?

                                      Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                                      A registry is just papers. Given that the this horse's pedigree has a lot of proven performance blood....and he is a clone of a superior performance horse....he will get more than enough people willing to breed to him regardless of registries/brands.

                                      And if he does produce good jumping horses...he will get more.


                                      Lack of a registry wouldn't stop me from breeding to him with the right mare.
                                      Yeah. But the registry of clones does create a huge problem in the long term. Leaving population genetics and inbreeding aside, it's hard to see how the offspring of the clone will be sold as breeding stock. Those do need to be registered, right? Most people won't clone, so the sons and daughters of Gemini Twist who reproduce the old fashioned way will need some way of being incorporated into a breed's (or breeds') pedigree. Otherwise, how do you make pedigrees for their offspring (the grandbabies of the clone)?

                                      Sorry to bore you with the history question. I'm working on an academic history of this for someone, and very little about this history is known.... at least to them!
                                      The armchair saddler
                                      Politically Pro-Cat

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        I seriously doubt if there will be problems in the future. If the clones produce superior horses they will be incorporated in the registries with in the second generation. The genetics have performance behind them.

                                        Zangersheide has already agreed to accept clones and foals of clones.

                                        As to epigenetics, it would appear that they are only important in the first generation--at least as far as our current knowledge goes. So for breeding, they shouldn't matter. That's one of the benefits of the way the TB system works. Even if a horse is a dud as a performer or has bad conformation, it can still become a very superior sire. Blandford is the perfect example. His pasterns were too upright and he broke down early in his racing career. The pasterns were apparently inherited from his grandfather. Yet Blandford is one of the greatest of all TB sires, and his quality has persisted for generations. But he'd have never been given the opportunity to breed in Germany because of his legs.
                                        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                        Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Jumper_SoCal View Post
                                          Wow they cloned him?? Man I hope they also clone Darco, Ratina z and Royal Kaliber too. Not to mention many others!
                                          Ratina Z has already been cloned more than once. Darco and Royal Kaliber died at a time before gene banking was really going, and there are no clones.
                                          Zaffiro Farm - Tewksbury, NJ -
                                          info@zaffirofarm.com ; www.zaffirofarm.com; www.facebook.com/ZaffiroFarm
                                          www.continentalstudbook.com; www.facebook.com/ContinentalStudbook

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X