Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You're responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it--details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums' policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it's understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users' profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses -- Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it's related to a horse for sale, regardless of who's selling it, it doesn't belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions -- Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services -- Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products -- While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements -- Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be "bumped" excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues -- Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators' discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you'd rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user's membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

what does "own son" or "own daughter" mean

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    what does "own son" or "own daughter" mean

    I see it on quarter horse threads often. What am I missing?
    A man must love a thing very much if he not only practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practices it without any hope of doing it well.--G. K. Chesterton

    #2
    I think it''s a different way of saying a certain horse is by a certain sire. Instead of saying " Bucky is sired by Dobbin" it's phrased as Bucky is "the own son of Dobbin."
    Last edited by cayuse; Jul. 15, 2020, 07:19 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      Weird isn't it? As if "son of " isn't clear enough.

      Comment


        #4
        I think it's an attempt to be more specific. There are people still selling their "King-bred" quarter horses, and we all fully know that King isn't any closer than 5 generations back on anybody's papers.

        Or to use one more recent, Highbrow Cat. There are "Highbrow Cat-bred" foals being born, that are out of a Highbrow Cat son or daughter, but there are also a few "own son/daughter"s being bred each year too. At this point, there are foals being born the same year who might have Highbrow Cat as a sire, grandsire, or great-grandsire. So it's sometimes a helpful distinction, even if it's redundant.

        Comment


          #5
          When some folks will say "son of Stallion X", they could mean the direct or "own" son, the grandson, the great grandson, or the great-great grandson, etc., of Stallion X. I've always understood "own" son to mean the direct son, sired by the generationally-closest stallion in the pedigree.
          "You armchair quarterbacks truly disgust me. Get out from behind your keyboards and go try to learn half as much about horsemanship as Ms. Colvin." -- APirateLooksAtForty

          Comment


            #6
            I've always thought of it as a direct offspring as opposed to second or more generation back. Basically what Compadre says above.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by 2tempe View Post
              I've always thought of it as a direct offspring as opposed to second or more generation back. Basically what Compadre says above.
              I get that, but the question being, why would anyone refer to the "grand-son" of a sire as a "son"? Why the "own" designation? Do breeders of AQHA stock refer to horses from a sire line as "sons of" that sire when they aren't?

              Comment


                #8
                They might not be referring to a grandson as a "son." More likely they are saying something like ," This horse is by Stallion X," when it's actually a grandson and not an own son.

                Basically if some folks were not deceptive about it, the others wouldn't feel the need to double emphasize the fact that it is the horse's very own first generation directly immediate offspring.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Compadre View Post
                  They might not be referring to a grandson as a "son." More likely they are saying something like ," This horse is by Stallion X," when it's actually a grandson and not an own son.

                  Basically if some folks were not deceptive about it, the others wouldn't feel the need to double emphasize the fact that it is the horse's very own first generation directly immediate offspring.
                  Oh. Well the term "by" means a son or daughter of. So the term "own" is used as a response to other people's deception about the actual sire or dam. How odd that such a thing would be necessary, especially when pedigrees are so easily accessible.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Back in the day it meant the foal was bred by the people standing the stallion, from their own mares. As compared to an outside program. That’s meaningful if the stallion owner’s program is well respected and the stallion bred outside mares of variable quality
                    ~Veronica
                    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Usually I think it means the person writing the ad doesn't know what they are talking about.

                      I was under the impression, as vxf11 said, that it was to refer to a the son of a famous stallion that was bred with intention to stay with the breeder and eventually replace sire. I see it all the times in Craig's list ads & I am fairly confident in assuming that in most of them it doesn't truly apply.

                      Is "own daughter" a thing? This sounds even more suspicious.

                      Whatever - maybe it is one of those phrases that has now changed to mean what people previously incorrectly assumed it meant.


                      ​​​​

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Compadre View Post
                        I think it's an attempt to be more specific. There are people still selling their "King-bred" quarter horses, and we all fully know that King isn't any closer than 5 generations back on anybody's papers.

                        Or to use one more recent, Highbrow Cat. There are "Highbrow Cat-bred" foals being born, that are out of a Highbrow Cat son or daughter, but there are also a few "own son/daughter"s being bred each year too. At this point, there are foals being born the same year who might have Highbrow Cat as a sire, grandsire, or great-grandsire. So it's sometimes a helpful distinction, even if it's redundant.
                        Thank you so much for the explanation!

                        If my ask about the "King-bred" phenomenon, the one where the sire in question is several generations back. After you say that, the onus is on the buyer to read the pedigree and see how line-bred to him, or how dilute that pedigree is, correct?

                        From a genetics point of view (and assuming anything other than close in-breeding within that stallion's set of offspring, I'd think that the genetic effect of that horse 4 or 5 generations back was minimal. It gets more complicated than that, of course, since the breed as a whole could be relatively inbred. But my point is that I wonder if savvy buyers are in the business of figuring out for themselves just that the advertisement of "King-bred" or, "Foundation bred" means for horses many generations down from the horses they are naming.
                        The armchair saddler
                        Politically Pro-Cat

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thank God we don't have that terminology in TBs.
                          www.laurienberenson.com

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X