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while we're on the subject: new Dun test

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  • while we're on the subject: new Dun test

    I know there's not many of us involved or interested with Dun, but just found out UC Davis can now test for Dun!

    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

  • #2
    That's cool! I'd heard it would be available soon. Too bad I'm stuck in the land of dark bay mares (seriously, dark bay is my least favorite color) and won't ever need to test for all these neat color genes. Red and agouti are about as far as I could go.


    • #3
      That's interesting... I have a silver buckskin paint mare. (Ee Aa nCr NZ) She was originally registered as a dun because of a dorsal stripe. The stripe looks like countershading to me, but sometimes I wonder... One of her foals, out of a dark bay stallion, had a VERY distinct dorsal stripe showing through his baby coat... Not sure how it shed out though.

      Might be worthwhile to have her tested. Boy would that just be insane if she carried dun too? Several of her foals are registered as duns. I just figured they were actually silver.
      We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson


      • Original Poster

        oh! I would love to see pictures of your mare, do you have any? Visually how does she appear? What an interesting combo!

        I have a perlino filly whose sire is dun and buckskin, so I'll be testing her, just to know.
        InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs

        Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)


        • #5
          She's a rarity, that's for sure! Forgot to mention she's overo too. Her body is a really rich caramel brown, her legs look almost dark burgundy. Her mane is pretty dark because the cream gene has a tendency to "cancel out" the silver effect on the mane & tail. There are pictures of here here:


          On the left, click on the link titled "News" and you'll see pictures of Angel, and her daughter Bella, who is a silver black. They are both the first ever confirmed in the APHA breed.

          Angel is a one in a million mare. She's built like an arab, moves like a warmblood, and hit the color jackpot for sure!
          We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson


          • #6
            Wow! A test for dun finally! Very cool. Dun is quite common in our breed.


            • #7
              I might try that. I think I have a red dun colt. AQHA registered him sorrel but I think that is because his dam is bay. What they don't know is that she has quite a dorsal stripe and is likely bay dun. Other offspring of the sire have been red dun. So I wonder. maybe I should test both mare and foal. of course some say they must have more than a doesal stripe to be dun--other barring.
              Touchstone Acres Lipizzans, Standing N. Samira VI (Gray), N. XXIX-18(Black), more in 2014


              • #8
                Talia, your girls are BEAUTIFUL!!
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


                • #9
                  I have a number with a lot of white on them that are hard to tell what they carry under all that white. Seeing them in their foal coats helps as dun factor markings can be more obvious (as well as more misleading) right after birth. Generally though, in our breed, foals are born with dorsal stripes and shoulder/leg barring and it indicates dun. A good example was our first foal, Ricochet who was a lovely tan color with primitive markings and he roaned out to where you can barely see any sign of the primitive markings now. Seasonally he runs from nearly white to a tan color.

                  This is what Ricochet looked like last weekend at the stallion show:


                  At birth...note the faint leg barring. A clear dorsal stripe was present also.


                  Now shedding out:


                  Finished shedding...and other than faint leg barring, you see little of his original color. He's a classic roan though so he lightens and darkens with each season.


                  This is another one I'd love to test. She's an extensive sabino and I think she's a red dun. She roaned out some from her birth color and it's hard to be sure now.

                  Belle at the show last weekend:


                  At birth:


                  Note the view from the rear and what seems to be a dorsal stripe.


                  A shot from the same perspective as a long yearling:



                  • #10
                    There's just one problem, the test is not an actual test for the Dun Gene itself, yet. They are looking for "markers" which is not quite the same thing. They are asking for hair from at least one, preferably both parents to be sent along with the subject horse. I'm not sure exactly how that works, but there's no guarantee it's 100% accurate. From what I heard they are going to keep looking for the actual gene, though, fingers crossed they find it soon.


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JB View Post
                      Talia, your girls are BEAUTIFUL!!
                      Thanks JB! I'm quite proud of both of them.

                      Angel is in foal to a Spectrum bred B&W homozygous tobiano for a late spring baby and I just can't WAIT!

                      Just for fun, here are the color possibilities from the cross:

                      7.18% - Buckskin Tovero
                      7.18% - Silver Buckskin Tobiano
                      7.18% - Silver Buckskin Tovero
                      7.18% - Silver Bay Tovero
                      7.18% - Silver Bay Tobiano
                      7.18% - Buckskin Tobiano
                      7.18% - Bay Tovero
                      7.18% - Bay Tobiano
                      2.39% - Buckskin Overo
                      2.39% - Bay
                      2.39% - Buckskin
                      2.39% - Silver Buckskin
                      2.39% - Silver Bay Overo
                      2.39% - Bay Overo
                      2.39% - Silver Buckskin Overo
                      2.39% - Silver Bay
                      2.34% - Palomino Tovero
                      2.34% - Chestnut Tobiano
                      2.34% - Chestnut Tovero
                      2.34% - Palomino Tobiano
                      1.03% - Smoky Black Tovero
                      1.03% - Smoky Black Tobiano
                      1.03% - Black Tobiano
                      1.03% - Black Tovero
                      1.03% - Silver Smoky Black Tovero
                      1.03% - Silver Dapple Tobiano
                      1.03% - Silver Dapple Tovero
                      1.03% - Silver Smoky Black Tobiano
                      0.78% - Chestnut Overo
                      0.78% - Palomino
                      0.78% - Palomino Overo
                      0.78% - Chestnut
                      0.34% - Black
                      0.34% - Smoky Black
                      0.34% - Smoky Black Overo
                      0.34% - Black Overo
                      0.34% - Silver Smoky Black
                      0.34% - Silver Dapple Overo
                      0.34% - Silver Dapple
                      0.34% - Silver Smoky Black Overo

                      I'd love to get a silver smoky black tovero, but maybe a silver smoky grullo tovero is in the cards as well?
                      We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TaliaCristianna View Post
                        Angel is in foal to a Spectrum bred B&W homozygous tobiano
                        Who is that? I'm looking
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


                        • #13

                          The sire is Sculptor:


                          He is absolutely the most well mannered stallion I've ever been around. He's also a pretty extravagant mover and has a wonderful jump!

                          His owner, Karen, is also one of the kindest barn owners I've ever met. She really goes the extra mile for her clients.
                          We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson


                          • #14
                            Oh my, I remember when he was born! I had no idea so much time had passed that he was old enough to stand at stud! Cool!
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


                            • #15
                              He's so sweet, I just love his disposition. I think he'll be a great cross with Angel. She's doesn't have a mean bone in her body, but she's pretty fiery! You'd swear she was at least half-arab based off of her looks, brains, and attitude!
                              We are all inclined to judge ourselves by our ideals; others, by their acts. ~Harold Nicolson


                              • #16
                                That's pretty cool -- I have a young gelding by a dun stallion, out of a rich chocolaty bay mare. The gelding has the rich chocolate color with no signs of dilution, BUT he has shoulder barring, leg barring (barely, since he's tobiano) and a dorsal stripe. I've always wondered.
                                Shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you? You are at your very best when things are worst.


                                • Original Poster

                                  Talia--if the sire is homozygous tobi--where are the 'plain' overo and chestnut etc. %s coming from in your analysis?

                                  Or is he homzygous black? (no, I see chestnut there too.. )


                                  I did not know the new test wasn't a strict genetic test. But I'm guessing the more we test for markers, the more it leads them to the genetic test? Or is it apples and oranges? Would love to 'help' find the gene, you know?
                                  InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs

                                  Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)


                                  • #18
                                    testing for genes

                                    If they are able to run a test that shows probability that the horse carries the dun gene, they have pinned it down to one chromosome, and probably one area in that chromosome. They probably have a test that looks for a gene that they know is really close to the dun gene, because it goes with the dun color if the chromosome has a recombination event. The more samples that they get, particularly if they can get several from a family line where some have the dun gene, and some don't, the faster they will pin down the actual gene itself. So they would probably love it if you can get together with a pool of other owners of get from the same stallion, and all send your samples in at once. For instance....


                                    • Original Poster

                                      So they would probably love it if you can get together with a pool of other owners of get from the same stallion, and all send your samples in at once. For instance....
                                      Allright DB--we need to time ours together!
                                      InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs

                                      Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by pintopiaffe View Post
                                        Allright DB--we need to time ours together!
                                        Sounds good! We could test the two full sisters as well as Belle and one or two of the others.