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Decode this for me: "One of the rare stallions which can be crossed like a thoroughbred without its disadvantages".

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  • Decode this for me: "One of the rare stallions which can be crossed like a thoroughbred without its disadvantages".

    Found a French stallion that looks like a nice compliment to my wonderful Simbalu mare. His description includes this language. What does this mean?

  • #2
    Just guessing here: horse will give athleticism (or whatever TBs give) without giving hot reactivity or winning any races?

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    • #3
      That reads like a poor translation from another language, whether machine or human. Where's the original page it's on?
      ______________________________
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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      • #4
        Editing: I deleted what I wrote because I misread. Oops.

        Without more context I’m guessing he passes on positive TB traits (like stamina, athleticism, refinement) without passing on negative traits associated with TBs.
        Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

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        • #5
          I agree that it appears to be weird English so hard to tell what it means. But at face value: TBs have a lot of crosses in their pedigree, which is a nice way of saying inbreeding. So if you say something can be crossed ‘like’ a tb you may be referring to the prevelance of inbreeding.

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          • Original Poster

            #6
            Thanks for the thoughts. New Normandy frozen of Calypso d’Herbiers. I was clicking around the COTH stallion links.

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            • #7
              http://www.newnormandyfarm.com/calyp...erbiers-1.html
              ______________________________
              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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              • #8
                I would assume this is written poorly, but it could also be someone who doesn't really have much first hand knowledge of TBs. Ironically, someone who seems to have no idea how much TBs have influenced their particular stallion. He's over 60% blood on paper, from a full TB damline, with multiple 100% TBs on the first page. TBs are over-represented in his pedigree compared to many modern jumper stallions.

                Nice stallion though - but of course, that couldn't have possibly come from all the full TBs on his page.
                AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by beowulf View Post
                  I would assume this is written poorly, but it could also be someone who doesn't really have much first hand knowledge of TBs. Ironically, someone who seems to have no idea how much TBs have influenced their particular stallion. He's over 60% blood on paper, from a full TB damline, with multiple 100% TBs on the first page. TBs are over-represented in his pedigree compared to many modern jumper stallions.

                  Nice stallion though - but of course, that couldn't have possibly come from all the full TBs on his page.

                  Exactly, thank you. Courage, athleticism, scope, versatility, jumping ability, couldn't possibly be the influence of his Thoroughbred blood.
                  A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

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                  • #10
                    From the website they mention rideability and producing “nice easy jumpers”. I interpret their phrasing to mean he produces athletic and amateur friendly babies.

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                    • #11
                      I would take it to mean that he is a lightening and refining stallion that adds blood without flattening the gaits or taking away any jump. Especially since it then mentions he crosses well with big mares. With the poor english, it's easy to interpret as a dig at thoroughbreds but I don't think that is what's meant here.

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                      • #12
                        "One of the rare stallions which can be crossed like a thoroughbred without its disadvantages".

                        First caveat, I'm not going to argue the value of TB blood -- that has been done ad nauseam over the last several decades on this and other forums and I have yet to see anyone, from either side, change their mind.

                        Second caveat, I have used a TB stallion to cover a warmblood jumping mare, so I have some actual first-hand experience besides that gleaned from behind a keyboard or recalled from the "glory days."

                        Jumper breeders are notoriously reluctant to use a TB stallion on their jumping marelines because of the perceived (actual or otherwise) diminished performance abilities of the direct offspring. For many, the purpose of using a TB stallion is to get a good half-TB filly for subsequent breeding, with the belief that the quarter-TB offspring are the most desirable in the competition ring. The reluctance comes from the 50% chance of producing a half-TB colt which many jumper breeders regard as a useless by-product. I understand the stallion owner to "claim" that this stallion will add "blood" and refinement without diminishing scope and power and without introducing certain conformational flaws.

                        European jumper breeders are still producing some very coarse and very cold horses. So there is still a need for stallions that refine and add blood. But my sense is that the jumper breeders in recent years are looking to "blood-type" warmblood stallions like this one rather than a TB stallion.
                        Last edited by Bent Hickory; May. 9, 2020, 08:13 PM.
                        "You armchair quarterbacks truly disgust me. Get out from behind your keyboards and go try to learn half as much about horsemanship as Ms. Colvin." -- APirateLooksAtForty

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                        • #13
                          Bent Hickory Which TB sire did you use?

                          Coming from the other side of experience, I am seeing the attitude above gradually changing as more quality TB stallions are brought to the forefront by efforts made by certain breed registries.

                          It may help that in other worlds outside of show-jumping, the TB blood is considered immensely valuable and a 1/2 to 3/4 TB is considered the winning combination for UL eventing.
                          AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

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                          • #14
                            From personal conversations, a lot of French breeders think TBs are complete nutters so a SF with a lot of blood would be an attractive alternative to a full TB.
                            "Good young horses are bred, but good advanced horses are trained" Sam Griffiths

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by beowulf View Post
                              Which TB sire did you use?
                              I've used Coconut Grove three times and have doses stored in my tank for the future.

                              Originally posted by beowulf View Post
                              Coming from the other side of experience, I am seeing the attitude above gradually changing as more quality TB stallions are brought to the forefront by efforts made by certain breed registries.
                              Having the breed registries promote TB stallions is entirely different from mare owners using them.

                              Originally posted by beowulf View Post
                              It may help that in other worlds outside of show-jumping, the TB blood is considered immensely valuable and a 1/2 to 3/4 TB is considered the winning combination for UL eventing.
                              Pretty sure that my comments were limited to jumper breeders -- I don't follow UL eventing or those who breed for that ring.
                              "You armchair quarterbacks truly disgust me. Get out from behind your keyboards and go try to learn half as much about horsemanship as Ms. Colvin." -- APirateLooksAtForty

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Bent Hickory View Post

                                I've used Coconut Grove three times and have doses stored in my tank for the future.
                                Did you have any trouble selling them? What did you like/dislike about what CG brought to the table?

                                Originally posted by Bent Hickory View Post
                                Having the breed registries promote TB stallions is entirely different from mare owners using them.
                                Yes, definitely. But at least some breeders (yourself included) have bred to them. As long as the option is there. Fragonard is another one I can think of that has been standing a few years, and has had good breeders use him. I don't think he is the best a Thoroughbred stud has to offer, but he comes from absolute world-class lines and I totally understand why he was acquired.

                                I don't think anyone here is debating the reluctance observed by some mare owners to breed their quality mare to a TB stallion. That's totally a fact I agree with.

                                Originally posted by Bent Hickory View Post
                                Pretty sure that my comments were limited to jumper breeders -- I don't follow UL eventing or those who breed for that ring.
                                Yup! That's why I included 'worlds outside of SJ' to make it clear I was shifting the topic to another discipline, where TBs are more commonly used.
                                AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

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                                • #17
                                  One of the biggest disadvantages in using a tb stallion is the financial bit. People rather buy tb crosses by a warmblood stallion out of a tb mare than the other way around. That's the sad truth which makes some highly talented and well bred tb stallions and their owners struggle to get any mares.

                                  Using a stallion high in blood will sort that problem out. If the stallion is also a lighter type and have the actual tb lines fairly close in the pedigree it is even a bigger advantage.
                                  I love horses, eventing and good dining!
                                  Blogging at www.eventingmania.com

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