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Is this cross doable? Novice question.

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  • Is this cross doable? Novice question.

    Do you guys mind telling me if this cross is feasible? I am not familiar with the difference between line breeding and incest lol.
    https://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pe.../84538/carrico
    https://www.horsetelex.com/horses/pe...92203/ditola-s
    Trinity Farm LLC
    Quality hunters and jumpers at Midwest prices
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  • #2
    I don't think the term incest applies to animals at all as it is based on human taboos.

    The terms you are looking for are inbreeding and linebreeding. Here is a random article from dog world that discusses that. Purebred dogs are typically much more inbred/linebred than most breed of horses, which is why the dogs in any one breed look so similar.

    http://www.topsfieldbassets.com/bree...nebreeding.htm

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    • #3
      Unless I'm missing something, all that is there is that you have Capitol II as the damsire on the sire's side and Capitol I as the grandsire on the dam's side, right? If that is the case, to me, I wouldn't see that as problematic unless you were trying to avoid that line specifically for some reason.

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      • #4
        As someone already mentioned, the terms used are usually line breeding and inbreeding. There is a great quote that I have always loved, "It is called line breeding if it works. It is called inbreeding if it doesn't."

        I do disagree with Scribbler in regards to inbreeding only being a human taboo, although I know she was specifically referring to the term incest. Studies have shown that, in the wild, horses normally do not inbreed and avoid doing so. Bachelor stallions or fillies of mature age are either pushed out of the herd or find a new herd in which to mate. I have always believed, if mother nature doesn't let it happen in the wild, we probably shouldn't be allowing it to happen with our animals either.

        In regards to the pedigrees the OP posted, I would not be concerned about doing this mating as the inbreeding coefficient would be 3.91% because of the doubled up Capitol I and Lord. If the OP doesn't like the traits that Capitol I or Lord are known for and normally pass on to their offspring, then this cross might be of concern. It entirely depends on what the OP's breeding goals are. An example of heavy inbreeding would be if you bred a full brother to a full sister or a son back to it's dam. The inbreeding coefficient for these two crosses would be 25%.
        Last edited by Daventry; Jul. 28, 2019, 10:46 AM.
        www.DaventryEquestrian.com
        Home of Welsh Cob stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
        Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness
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        Comment


        • #5
          This is an interesting article on horse breeding. http://www.compusire.com/linebreedinbreed.html
          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
          Thread killer Extraordinaire

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          • Original Poster

            #6
            Thanks, everyone! I was kidding about the incest. Sorry, not funny. Question answered... thank you!!!
            Trinity Farm LLC
            Quality hunters and jumpers at Midwest prices
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            • #7
              This is 3 times Capitol basically, so I wouldn't do this if I was looking for a breeding animal. That being said, it has been done before for sport. Keep in mind that Capitol is heavily line bred to Ramzes, so make sure your mare has long enough lines and is correct in the croup. I like Carrico, but he is by Catoki, and sometimes you can get shorter with him, so keep that in mind too. You don't want short and heavy. and this breeding could do this.

              Just my 2 cents.

              Tim
              Sparling Rock
              www.sparlingrock.com

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Thanks, RyTimMick. I wondered about the Capitol. My mare jumped to 1.45 but she is very Cardento-looking through the loin, which is an area I’d like to improve.
                Trinity Farm LLC
                Quality hunters and jumpers at Midwest prices
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                • #9
                  Linebreeding, as many have mentioned, has been utilized successfully to produce some wonderful sport horses. Recently (in scientific terms - a few decades for developmental joint diseases) there has been a great deal of study in the area of genetic developmental joint disease in horses, and much evidence that these run in certain lines. In just the past year, warmblood fragile foal syndrome, or WFFS, was identified in many breeds, not just warmbloods, and testing is now available to determine if horses are carriers. This may put a bit of a different 'spin' on the much debated line-vs.-inbreeding debate, as breeding horses close in lineage may prove to affect the odds of having affected foals. I think as we are better able to identify specific alleles for these various conditions, it will be easier to combine close bloodlines with increased safety. For now, at least, it's something to consider when breeding horses closely related or with the same blood multiple times in a pedigree.

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                  • #10
                    If you want to improve the loin area, you should look to Q blood like Verdi or Quinar, Heartbreaker blood at least in the motherline. Uriko by Untouchable will do this and add length of leg, but you do get another Carthago way back. Although your mare could use more Corde blood to balance all that Capitol, it is hard to do this without getting softer backs. Heartbeat Z might be interesting for you. Maybe a Long legged Casall stallion, he and his father were known for strengthening backs. Plus you get Caletto II to go with your Capitol(known nic). Casall himself will shorten the back, but he will shorten the legs too. Maybe Chilli Willi, plus you get another Corde.

                    Tim
                    Sparling Rock
                    www.sparlingrock.com

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