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    deleting/not applicable
    Last edited by southcoastqueens; Jul. 13, 2019, 12:09 AM.

  • #2
    PHR tried to offer a registry for AI bred Thoroughbreds. They closed up...what? Five years ago, maybe? Researching that registry and the issues they had may be a good starting point for you.

    Comment


    • #3
      I have a really nice, extremely well-bred TB eventing stallion just starting his stud career. I have one full TB yearling by him, and 3 of my own TB mares in foal for next year. While the idea of a sport registry is nice, I don't believe it will happen. The Jockey Club is only concerned with racing and doesn't have interest/time/ resources for sport.

      Sadly, I don't believe there is enough buyer interest either to justify a huge effort breeding TBs for sport. I do it because I love the breed, and I fully believe the good ones are awesome eventers. There are others who feel the same way, but it is realistically not a large or profitable market. You're absolutely right that it isn't a deep pool of TB stallions standing for sport in the US; partly because the best ones are $$$ for racing, and because it costs a lot to stand a stallion, compete him, get foals on the ground, all needed to market him well. And then you still have many breeders who would rather use an average WB stallion instead.

      Honestly there are lots of nice OTTBs out there, and (as my husband reminds me often!!) I can pick up a 3yo racehorse already broke and going cheaper than it costs to produce a weanling (including mare care for 11 months, vet bills, etc), and I still have to feed/care for that foal for 3 years. Breeding sport TBs is definitely a labor of love, not for profit!
      A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.
      ? Albert Einstein

      ~AJ~

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by southcoastqueens

        The amount of TBs in the UK and NZ on the show circuit and competing in TB shows and hack classes is enormous, and I think that given the proper framework that could take off in NA too!
        Do you have evidence of this?

        Because I've not understood that to be true. My understanding is both countries have recently also tried to push the idea of "OTTBs" and created a lot of TIP-like classes because the breed has similar stigmas. I don't have a lot of (or any) experience showing in the UK or NZ, so my information is all secondhand.
        Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

        Comment


        • #5
          Interesting southcoastqueens . Thanks for sharing.

          I truly have very little knowledge of New Zealand. Friends in Australia have told me OTTBs are perceived similarly; I don't know if that is factual or not. From my experience with England, etc., they seem to hold TB blood in higher regard than us and are more likely to stand TB sires for sport crosses. But I had not ever heard they value straight TBs and OTTBs as show hunters.

          I'm probably very wrong in this, but I don't think our North American horses have less TB blood than places like England. We're very likely to breed an OTTB mare to *anything else* and call the resulting offspring by another breed-- warmblood, appendix, anglo, welsh cross, connemara cross, draft cross... half the time, we practically apologize for the thoroughbred part. "He's registered KWPN by X stallion... his dam was just a thoroughbred..."
          Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

          Comment


          • #6
            It may be the TB breeder in me but no, I do not see any reason to breed TBs specifically for "sport" when we are breeding so many for the ultimate sport of horse racing. Nothing we could possibly do with a horse is more athletic than a horse race and although other breeds also race, it can be argued that none do it anywhere near as well.
            If you are breeding for your own use there is nothing wrong with using AI to breed a non registered TB but I do not see how that could ever be cost effective to breed to sell. Your competition has already done that and done it well on a larger scale.
            McDowell Racing Stables

            Home Away From Home

            Comment


            • #7
              I got curious about the PHR dating. According to this thread it shut down in 2016.

              https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f...gistry-closing

              But this post explains the a bit about the genesis of it:

              Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
              We had such hopes for it when the JC created it for sport TBs who weren't going to breed to race and their foals. It was going to be the American equivalent of Weatherbys Non-Thoroughbred Register. Then the JC lost interest and sold it to Ned Bonnie who gave it to AHSA, or maybe USEA was already in existence, but I'm not sure. When USEF was founded, IIRC, they inherited it, had no interest in promoting it, expanded it to register anything, and now have decided to let it die.
              The PHR started in an era where more people valued the TB for sport and still couldn't stick around.

              That certainly doesn't mean that something similar couldn't work, but that's one hell of an uphill battle.

              Comment


              • #8
                Way back in the mists of time, the Hunter Improvement Society (HIS) in the UK selected and supported TB stallions, usually with good racing form, which stood in various regions around the country and were available for use on local mares, usually hunter type. In the 1970s the HIS was the leading stud book for eventers. Then the HIS evolved into SHB(GB) and WB stallions were introduced, the WB invasion had begun and the TB has since declined in influence.... except every serious event rider wants a high percentage of 'blood': scratch the pedigree of an athletic WB and see the quantity of blood, just labled differently.

                TBs in the UK have usually had second careers in hunting, polo, team chasing, showing, etc. Many people even learn to ride on TBs and don't even know what they are sitting on. We don't breed that many animals (about 7 K p.a.) Obviously some will be culled after racing and most mares go into the breeding paddocks so it is generally geldings that need a new job. Concern for animal welfare within the racing industry has lead to the active promotion of 'retraining of racehorses' (ROR) through promotional marketing and support for many showing classes so there is now a specific demand for such creatures (and eligability is put into ads as a selling point). However, racing used to be very inward-looking and dismissive of other equestrian activities (racing is an 'industry' and all other equestrianism is still percieved as a 'lifestyle', even by government and sporting bodies here) so one good thing to come out of the racing interest in retraining is a much closer relationship between racing and eventing.

                And to return to the original point about TB stallions, there are some sport stallions around in the UK, not many, generally for eventing. Power Blade is one at Harthill Stud and Primitive Rising at Langellar Stud ... sadly, I think there are very few on the SHB(GB) approved stallion list at present.
                "Good young horses are bred, but good advanced horses are trained" Sam Griffiths

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by southcoastqueens View Post
                  ...Any research I've done has focused on steeplechase lines in the UK, and French TB breeding, which seems to have a bit more finesse than NA breeding has had (for sport horses at least). I've also looked into the creation of the Georgian Grande breed (Saddlebred x Drafts or Fresians) which aims to bring back a "type" of Saddlebred that has long since disappeared.

                  Disclaimer** I am in NO way bashing the Jockey Club or North American Thoroughbred breeders in any way! I love Thoroughbreds and would just like to know if there is any way to improve on the sport horse side of the coin.

                  So, any thoughts? Suggestions? Is this just the ramblings of a university student with too much time on her hands during summer break? Am I crazy?
                  If you are focusing on steeplechase lines in Europe, why no do the same here? Concern, a Broad Brush son, was the sire of the Eclipse Award winning gelding Good Night Shirt. There are other Broad Brush influences in steeplechasing, including the pedigrees of Eclipse Award Winning claimer, Eagle Beagle. The gelding Eagle Beagle is a son of Lemon Drop Kid but has Broad Brush on his damside.

                  Richard's Kid. Eagle Beagle's full brother, Richard's Kid, is at stud in California, at Magali Farms.

                  Mr. Broad Blade -- a gorgeous son of Broad Brush is also at Magali Farms and his fee is only $1000. He's getting up there so I'm sure he is close to being pensioned.




                  Include -- the Broad Brush son Include is at Airdry Stud in Kentucky.

                  COTH poster Fred owned A Fine Romance, and if you PM her, she might know of some of his sons who are standing, or she might have other Thoroughbred stallions she would recommend. I believe that Fred's focus was primarily on breeding sport horses with that stallion and one of his daughters was a three-day eventer in the Olympics a few years ago.

                  Senor Swinger -- the sire of 2017 Eclipse Award finalist (steeplechase) gelding named All the Way Jose. Senor Swinger is standing in Florida.

                  Tiznow -- is the sire of another Eclipse Award finalist named Mr. Hot Stuff. Tiznow is standing in Kentucky at Winstar Farms.
                  Last edited by PeteyPie; Jul. 12, 2019, 08:19 PM.
                  "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Willesdon View Post
                    Way back in the mists of time, the Hunter Improvement Society (HIS) in the UK selected and supported TB stallions, usually with good racing form, which stood in various regions around the country and were available for use on local mares, usually hunter type. In the 1970s the HIS was the leading stud book for eventers.
                    Just wanted to chime in to say that there's an entire book written on the history of the HIS (aptly titled The History of the H.I.S.) if people are interested in further information on the aims and successes of the HIS.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PeteyPie View Post

                      If you are focusing on steeplechase lines in Europe, why no do the same here? Concern, a Broad Brush son, was the sire of the Eclipse Award winning gelding Good Night Shirt. There are other Broad Brush influences in steeplechasing, including the pedigrees of Eclipse Award Winning claimer, Eagle Beagle. The gelding Eagle Beagle is a son of Lemon Drop Kid but has Broad Brush on his damside.

                      Richard's Kid. Eagle Beagle's full brother, Richard's Kid, is at stud in California, at Magali Farms.

                      Mr. Broad Blade -- a gorgeous son of Broad Brush is also at Magali Farms and his fee is only $1000. He's getting up there so I'm sure he is close to being pensioned.




                      Include -- the Broad Brush son Include is at Airdry Stud in Kentucky.

                      COTH poster Fred owned A Fine Romance, and if you PM her, she might know of some of his sons who are standing, or she might have other Thoroughbred stallions she would recommend. I believe that Fred's focus was primarily on breeding sport horses with that stallion and one of his daughters was a three-day eventer in the Olympics a few years ago.

                      Senor Swinger -- the sire of 2017 Eclipse Award finalist (steeplechase) gelding named All the Way Jose. Senor Swinger is standing in Florida.

                      Tiznow -- is the sire of another Eclipse Award finalist named Mr. Hot Stuff. Tiznow is standing in Kentucky at Winstar Farms.
                      Tiz Now stands for $50k. That is a problem. Sport horse breeders don't go there. Include is $7,500. Most of the proven, athletic TB's have fees above what non-racing people are willing to pay

                      Fred's stallion, A Fine Romance ,was stunning, I agree. I would look to Fred for advice in this area.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sigh. Good discussion, nothing contentious, and the OP/follow up posts get deleted??? Why, because you didn't get the response you expected? :-/

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Simkie View Post
                          Sigh. Good discussion, nothing contentious, and the OP/follow up posts get deleted??? Why, because you didn't get the response you expected? :-/
                          Actually my email got hacked and I wanted to delete this account because it has personal information. I found no other way to do that other than deleting posts and going inactive, but thanks for the snark. Any responses I had gotten were very informational and well written.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            How does posting deleting/not applicable tell us you felt the responses that people took the time to share were informational and well written? Not applicable is a relatively mild version of FU in my opinion.
                            McDowell Racing Stables

                            Home Away From Home

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                              How does posting deleting/not applicable tell us you felt the responses that people took the time to share were informational and well written? Not applicable is a relatively mild version of FU in my opinion.
                              I think you might be reading too much into this lol.. it's not applicable because I don't want this account anymore and didn't want anyone to post again knowing that I would try to delete! No offence intended just don't want my (compromised) personal info out there I'm grateful for everyone who has given me info and was responding and asking questions before I was notified that my account was compromised, does anyone know if I can actually delete or if I just need to become inactive?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                No you can't delete your account. You can contact the mods and see if they can help you change to a new email
                                McDowell Racing Stables

                                Home Away From Home

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                                  No you can't delete your account. You can contact the mods and see if they can help you change to a new email
                                  Thanks!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    You can change your email yourself, actually. On a computer (not mobile) click on your real name at the very top left corner of the screen to view your account. You can change your email there.

                                    Totally agree with what Laurie said about "not applicable" :-/

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      May I suggest that if one wants an email provider that is as close to unhackable as it's possible to get, one try protonmail.com, which uses double encryption. They have a free one with limited storage and benefits. Their paid one sometimes has sales and offers quite a few benefits.

                                      https://pixelprivacy.com/resources/m...ail-providers/
                                      "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                      Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by southcoastqueens View Post

                                        I think you might be reading too much into this lol.. it's not applicable because I don't want this account anymore and didn't want anyone to post again knowing that I would try to delete! No offence intended just don't want my (compromised) personal info out there I'm grateful for everyone who has given me info and was responding and asking questions before I was notified that my account was compromised, does anyone know if I can actually delete or if I just need to become inactive?
                                        I think you can change your information on your account, or even quit the forum, but you can leave your rather innocuous question up, since it doesn't reveal personal information and got a lot of responses that remain interesting. It's not like you were on here cursing out a trainer or barn with a lot of obvious identifying details.

                                        The threads on COTH stay up and visible with searches, and the idea of whether anyone is breeding TB sporthorses is actually a question that I am sure has occurred to many folks, and is a good question. Once a COTH thread gets responses, it tends to take on a life of it's own, and the discussion goes beyond the original post and the folks that take the time to respond tend to feel some ownership of the thread and their (usually) thoughtful and experienced answers.

                                        So beheading a thread like this feels a bit like an insult to the people who participated in good faith.

                                        You can't delete the thread so it will stay forever. You can replace the question you deleted, so the thread makes sense to people who read it in the future. You can certainly change or delete any identifying material and your email in your account setting, and you can certainly leave blank things like your location.

                                        If you stop posting or leave the forums, the thread will stay up and people will probably keep adding to it from time to time. And then one day in the year 2030 it will be revived by a random spammer selling something completely unrelated.

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