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Friesian dressage studs for TB cross?

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  • PandaKO
    started a topic Friesian dressage studs for TB cross?

    Friesian dressage studs for TB cross?

    I am considering breeding my TB mare to a Friesian sometime next year. I am looking for recommendations for a Friesian stud who crosses well with TBs.
    Looking for a stud with the following qualities:
    -3 good gaits, good shoulder movement.
    -shorter coupled- no loooong backs
    -UPHILL conformation
    -good neck, longer neck
    -GOOD MIND
    -16hh+
    -proven dressage performance
    -good hair is a plus, duh :P
    My girl's foal could use some more bone, and a longer neck. I'll try to add a photo of her. She has awesome hock action, balance, and is extremely smart. Located in Canada! 🇨🇦

  • GreyDes
    replied
    Not quite the same cross, but remember the recent “Behind the stall door” about Adiah HP? This says she’s 3/4 Friesian & 1/4 Dutch. https://www.chronofhorse.com/article...-with-adiah-hp

    Leave a comment:


  • MysticOakRanch
    replied
    Originally posted by ThatBayHorse View Post
    The majority of fresian crosses I have seen have been 100% fugly and non functional. I would really reconsider this cross. Plus fresians are a bit batty and TBs can be a bit batty (kind of arab-saddlebred crosses... WHY). There are 100 better crosses IMO.
    You just haven't seen quality horses. The Friesian is known for its kind and gentle character - I've never known one that is "batty". Of course, I hear that about Arabians too, and if you get away from halter bred (aka American breeders who destroy anything they touch in the name of money), the Arabian is an incredible horse. So - when I hear someone dismiss an entire breed (or type) of horse, I can pretty much guess the person has only seen a few bad representations, and has jumped to a thoroughly inaccurate conclusion.

    I use to breed Friesian crosses - none were batty or fugly. Interestingly, the one that was probably least attractive (big head, short neck, but adorable personality, great legs and feet, strong back, not fugly at all), was an awesome low-level eventer, and is now about ready to hit the FEI dressage ring.

    One of my stallions is in his 20s now, and still doing FEI work with a young rider. He showed through GP. One vet said he was the most beautiful horse she'd ever seen. Another vet asked if she could use his xrays (mid teens at the time) as an example of desirable xrays for long term soundness. People use to STEAL his photos all the time, even a regional magazine stole his photo for their ads. He was an extraordinary horse.

    One of my youngsters was USDF HOTY AA Rider at 2nd level - not all breeds, but ALL horses. A very well known clinician offered to buy him if he was a stallion (he was not), said he was an extraordinary horse.

    Several of them are happy mid-level AA horses. All are attractive, not fugly. You probably wouldn't even realize they are FX - they look like old style Warmbloods (good bone and feet, stocker then the modern WB) with excellent necks.

    I also know people who ended up buying Friesians and FXs after giving up on Warmbloods - too much horse, too much drama, too difficult, too intimidating - and found horses that were much better suited with that cross. A kinder, gentler, more tolerant horse.

    While my position isn't great here, this is an example of an FX - no one could call him batty or fugly. A stallion that you could trust around children, that an AA, then later a YR rode and learned on.

    Click image for larger version

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    Leave a comment:


  • Xanthoria
    replied
    We had a Friesian x TB gelding. He was 17h of solid inertia Great trail horse for hubby, v hard to get fit, “clinically clumsy” per the vet and a demolition derby of a jumper. Took a year of dressage to get his 4 best canter strong enough.

    Huge impossible to fit withers. Hard keeper. No leg feather. Nice tail tho!

    For me? I’d never breed one, but if you want that cross buy a started 4 yr old or older so you know what you’re getting.

    Leave a comment:


  • weixiao
    replied
    Is height an absolute requirement? If not, a bit out of the box, but what about North Forks Cardi? He would check a lot of your requirements and seems to have some really nice TB and WB X offspring. He is also a proven performer, appears to have a great mind, and has hair!

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by ThatBayHorse View Post
    The majority of fresian crosses I have seen have been 100% fugly and non functional. I would really reconsider this cross. Plus fresians are a bit batty and TBs can be a bit batty (kind of arab-saddlebred crosses... WHY). There are 100 better crosses IMO.
    I think it's a bit - ok, a lot - unfair to call either of them batty. Same with the NSH - Arab x ASB.

    Of course there are always "batty" individuals in every breed. But as a whole, none of those breeds, or crosses, are any battier than any other breed as a whole. Sure, train an Arabian or ASB or NSH to be always up and on alert and on edge, and you don't have a laid back ammy-friendly horse. You can't have batty Arabians owning the endurance world. You can't have batty TBs and TB crosses tearing up the Eventing world. You certainly didn't have batty TBs owning the Hunter world back in the day.

    A horse who, as a breed in general, or an individual in particular, may be a lot more spicy than someone can handle. That isn't batty. The breed or individual who is very forward thinking, and forward moving, is not batty.

    Leave a comment:


  • beowulf
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    Inspectors have said several times how much of a good cross he is on, specifically, TB mares.
    I happily admit being completely wrong about him - my initial impression was I thought he was nice, but not my cuppa... what's that about horses liking to prove us wrong?! there is one mare by him local to me that I am just in love with but she's some 10k out of my budget lol!

    Originally posted by colorfan View Post
    Very informative thread. I have seen a lot more Friesien crosses available just in the past year. Some very good points in this thread to keep in mind as I look around.
    colorfan they are becoming more popular in my area, too. There are several FriesianxTBs or FriesianxMorgans at my eventing barn, which has about 30+ boarders from Tadpole to Intermediate level. They aren't UL material, but they are really coming through as good amateur mounts for the older riders at my barn that just want something safe and uncomplicated for BN. My trainer just came back from horse shopping down south a few years ago with another one for one of her clients.

    Leave a comment:


  • ThatBayHorse
    replied
    The majority of fresian crosses I have seen have been 100% fugly and non functional. I would really reconsider this cross. Plus fresians are a bit batty and TBs can be a bit batty (kind of arab-saddlebred crosses... WHY). There are 100 better crosses IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Megaladon
    replied
    Originally posted by PandaKO View Post
    I am considering breeding my TB mare to a Friesian sometime next year. I am looking for recommendations for a Friesian stud who crosses well with TBs.
    Looking for a stud with the following qualities:
    -3 good gaits, good shoulder movement.
    -shorter coupled- no loooong backs
    -UPHILL conformation
    -good neck, longer neck
    -GOOD MIND
    -16hh+
    -proven dressage performance
    -good hair is a plus, duh :P
    My girl's foal could use some more bone, and a longer neck. I'll try to add a photo of her. She has awesome hock action, balance, and is extremely smart. Located in Canada! 🇨🇦
    You could look into the Friesian Connection. Located in Michigan. They have several stallions that are available fresh (one competes at I1) and some via frozen that are competing at Grand Prix. Good luck to you.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by PandaKO View Post
    -My mare does already have good hair, especially for a TB, so I don't care about that much. That would be a fun extra.
    She has a lovely tail, can't tell much about the mane. Are you familiar with how much work leg hair can be? Feathers are a pita. Would you be ok if she just got long hair hanging off the back of her fetlock?

    -This would be a personal horse for classical dressage, not competition.
    A Friesian isn't what I'd chose for classical dressage. Their sit power is not very good. Some are better by conformation, all need to be really worked correctly to get it right.

    I'd consider a WB stud, but honestly I'm not too excited about that idea.
    May I ask why?

    Originally posted by PandaKO View Post
    To answer another question, Friesian TBs can be registered as Friesian Sporthorses.
    I however do not give a hoot about resale value 😊
    You should care a great deal about resale value. The "foal for life" is a great concept, and is no better or worse than someone breeding for resale. But life happens. An acquaintenace is getting a divorce and needs to sell 4 of her "lifer" horses. Fortunately they are lovely horses with amazing pedigrees, and finding quality homes shouldn't be a problem Another recently lost her husband, and is having to sell the farm, and many people in that situation would have to downsize or sell all. Jobs get lost. Critical injuries happen.

    Originally posted by beowulf View Post
    Now... if you wanted bone and think hairy is a plus, I might steer you in the direction of Gatsby. He is an Oldenburg, but... really, really nice crossing on TBs. I have seen several of his TB xs now and have liked every one.. quite a turn-around too, because when I first saw him I was not that impressed -- but he is an excellent amateur-horse maker, and is proven to add bone, lengthen, make a big horse, and has several very nice TBx on the ground.
    Inspectors have said several times how much of a good cross he is on, specifically, TB mares.


    Leave a comment:


  • colorfan
    replied
    Very informative thread. I have seen a lot more Friesien crosses available just in the past year. Some very good points in this thread to keep in mind as I look around.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scribbler
    replied
    The thing that Iberians have that no other breed can match is agility and cattiness. They even outrank QH in this regard. They can collect, pirouette, do lateral moves, etc very very easily. The raw scope of their trots vary by individual but they can be taught to do a proper extended trot over time and move quite nicely. It's interesting sometimes looking at them in the paddock, its hard to tell where all that powerful agility comes from because they don't have huge back ends like QH. And some Lusitanos even look front heavy with big necks. I think you really need to see an Iberian in action to know what you've got.

    Freisians don't have much agility. If they are finding a slot in dressage these days, it is because of size and a big harness horse trot. People are also looking to Hackneys and Dutch Carriage Horses and draft crosses to get that big trot.

    That's because current dressage judging puts an emphasis on natural big gaits from training level on up. People will choose a horse with a natural huge trot rather than agility or a great canter because of the score sheets.

    But OP, if you are doing "classical dressage"? This is of course a very broad term and I don't know who.you are training with. But my own coach is in a French training program and i have watched over the years and seen that Iberians excel in that work, and Freisians don't.

    I've also seen a fair number of Freisians as the Dutch community here breeds them. I saw a driving exhibition once that had half a dozen vehicles in the arena at once: one horse, two horse, four in hand. Very impressive, but also the trot style varied a lot between horses. Some of them had dressage quality trots and others were more knees up harness horse.

    Lovely harness horses.

    Leave a comment:


  • Where'sMyWhite
    replied
    Originally posted by PandaKO View Post
    To answer another question, Friesian TBs can be registered as Friesian Sporthorses.
    I however do not give a hoot about resale value 😊
    FWIW, you may not care about resale value *now* but life has a habit of changing and not always in directions we don't anticipate.

    While your intentions may be that this is a forever horse, always, IMO, consider resale to give your future horse a soft landing if needed

    Leave a comment:


  • Hawkridge
    replied
    Originally posted by PandaKO View Post
    Finally figured out how to upload a photo of my mare!
    She's very well put together, a nice TB specimen for sure. If you must breed to a Freisian, I agree with others that have suggested ISF. I think your mare would cross best with a WB or ISH in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • beowulf
    replied
    Lovely mare, nice type. I agree with JB. Talk to ISF if you are dead-set on Friesian.. They would be the authority, I think.

    I think the Friesian is one of those breeds that suffers from its fan-base and there is a stigma still about the breed; there's two types of Friesians -- the Friesians bred by those that Luff Fluff and just want a pretty horse to look at, and then those that are serious sport-horse breeders (ISF, and MOR, for instance). Unfortunately I think the former out-populates the latter, so it can be really hard to find a true quality Friesian for dressage/riding and a lot of the FriesianXs we see are not from quality Friesians, IMHO... but those Friesians that are quality, are extremely nice, and people don't give this breed enough credit for its people-pleasing personality. It really is like no other breed, when you sit on a Friesian. I am a TB rider by preference, and I just love the Friesian's people-pleasing mentality. Morgans come close, but can be much hotter.

    Now... if you wanted bone and think hairy is a plus, I might steer you in the direction of Gatsby. He is an Oldenburg, but... really, really nice crossing on TBs. I have seen several of his TB xs now and have liked every one.. quite a turn-around too, because when I first saw him I was not that impressed -- but he is an excellent amateur-horse maker, and is proven to add bone, lengthen, make a big horse, and has several very nice TBx on the ground.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scribbler
    replied
    Originally posted by PandaKO View Post

    Hi Scribbler, Fear not! I do not just want that. I do think that the older style, baroque Friesians, not the modern wasp waisted sport types, and more reminiscent of their cavalry horse past. They were not all or always harness horses, and some still reflect that. I agree however, that most don't. Hence my research to find one with a decent back. 😊 I guess I could consider an Iberian TB cross, but leaves me feeling flat. I've never seen one I liked. At all. Perhaps you could prove me wrong and post a link to one that could change my mind? Iberians are my favourite BY FAR. I have extensive experience with them. 💜
    Offhand no I don't have any links, the horses I know are private horses with no internet presence, and if I do have snapshots, I don't have permission to post them all over the internet.

    My guess is if you love Iberians, a tb/ Freisians won't do it for you. Do you have any experience with Friesians?

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    I like your mare a lot! If you're really set on a good using Friesian cross, talk to Iron Spring Farm. At least their stallions are out there competing. Or were. They have

    Leave a comment:


  • lovezehorses
    replied
    I think the other thing is adding length in the neck. The thoroughbred/freisian crosses I am seeing do not have much length.

    Leave a comment:


  • Manahmanah
    replied
    For every 1 nice tb/fr cross ive seen there are 5 butt ass ugly hide behind the barn ones. No way i would gamble like this

    Leave a comment:


  • PandaKO
    replied
    Finally figured out how to upload a photo of my mare!

    Leave a comment:

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