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Friesian dressage studs for TB cross?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Hawkridge View Post

    But then wouldn't it be better for the OP to just go an buy a been-there/done-that lower level crossbred horse? There are tons of them out there. Why breed one when you can buy one?
    A Fresian/QH cross that is for sale came across my Facebook page yesterday. Lovely horse, ready to move up the levels. Price at 3 yo? 22k. Yes you can spend that easily breeding but sometimes 22k is easier to absorb financially over time from vet bills, the breeding, board bills etc, rather than all at once.

    Comment


    • #22
      I'm familiar with 2 Friesian QH crosses, and neither were high dollar horses. They look like dressage horses standing still but honestly they don't have the scope of a WB or the cattiness of an Iberian. They are nicely put together but I've also seen s Freisian cross that was freakishly narrow.

      They have high necks but aren't naturally lifting in front so it is easy to ride them functionally inverted and on the forehand without noticing.

      Honestly I don't love Freisians as riding horses.

      Now a TB Iberian cross is a lovely horse, and if you want a horse for playing around in "classical dressage," the Iberians are almost custom designed for that kind of program with its focus on collection and lateral work.

      I would look for a heavier set Lusitano stud rather than the lighter modern Andies that are being bred to look more Arab in build. I think you will get a much more functional horse than with a Friesian stud. It may not look as flashy in the paddock but it will move much better in terms of agility and collection.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by TheMoo View Post

        A Fresian/QH cross that is for sale came across my Facebook page yesterday. Lovely horse, ready to move up the levels. Price at 3 yo? 22k. Yes you can spend that easily breeding but sometimes 22k is easier to absorb financially over time from vet bills, the breeding, board bills etc, rather than all at once.
        Sure, I can see someone asking more money for a FresianX....but my suggestion was for the OP to look for a made crossebred lower level dressage horse....meaning it cold be a TBXQH or TBXDraft etc.....surely there are 3yr olds out there that are not 22k.
        And I would think that, for 22k for a 3yr old Freisian/QH, it had better be SPECTACULAR. I know of a reg Hanoverian 4 yr old, black- 17hh gelding with clean x-rays and very ammy- friendly ride, for the same price.

        Anyhow, whatever the OP decides to do I'm sure it will all turn out great in the end.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #24
          Hi again all! Love all the input 😊Thank you. To answer some questions:
          -I'm hoping to find recommendations for specific Friesian studs that have been proven to cross well with TBs. Does anyone know of any?
          -My mare does already have good hair, especially for a TB, so I don't care about that much. That would be a fun extra.
          -She is lovely and looks like a WB. Wish I could add a photo. I just do not want to lengthen the foal's back, as hers is perfect. Her neck is good but could be a touch longer. So no problems where she's concerned. If she had problems I would not breed. I prefer the adopt, don't shop mentality, and I'm still thinking this through.
          -I will do a TONNE of research before choosing a stud.
          -I cannot afford an Iberian outright at the moment, but one day will buy my dream Lusitano too. I do NOT want an Iberian TB cross.
          -I would not like a purebred Friesian as they are too heavy.
          ​​​​​​-I like Friesians as they are Baroque!
          -This would be a personal horse for classical dressage, not competition.
          -Check out the Friesian Sporthorse Lexington to see why I think this cross would be nice! 😎
          -I too have seen fugly horses of every cross. I'd consider a WB stud, but honestly I'm not too excited about that idea.
          Hope that explanation helps 😊


          ​​​​

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          • Original Poster

            #25
            To answer another question, Friesian TBs can be registered as Friesian Sporthorses.
            I however do not give a hoot about resale value 😊

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            • #26
              Freisians are baroque but they are baroque harness horses.

              Iberians are baroque and they are baroque saddle horses.

              Everything you want to do in the saddle will be easier if you start with a saddle horse and not a harness or draft horse.

              As far as functional conformation for various tasks, I highly recommend Deb Bennett's book on functional conformation for a better explanation than I can give here. Also you may find the archives of the no longer active Hooves Blog helpful.

              You need to consider skeletal proportions and what they contribute to achieving a task.

              IME the Iberian TB cross is very Iberian in type and has way more natural ability as a saddle horse than the Freisians I've seen. Neither the TB nor the Freisian is going to contribute much ability to sit or collect.

              But I realize that hair trumps the day, and black horses are most popular for dressage (was a recent thread on this) so if you want a big black horse with feathers, that is your choice.

              Comment


              • #27
                My comment was directly relating to TB crosses. I also think the Arabian, Morgan and other more phenotypically similar breeds make for a better option.

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                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  Originally posted by Scribbler View Post
                  Freisians are baroque but they are baroque harness horses.

                  Iberians are baroque and they are baroque saddle horses.

                  Everything you want to do in the saddle will be easier if you start with a saddle horse and not a harness or draft horse.

                  As far as functional conformation for various tasks, I highly recommend Deb Bennett's book on functional conformation for a better explanation than I can give here. Also you may find the archives of the no longer active Hooves Blog helpful.

                  You need to consider skeletal proportions and what they contribute to achieving a task.

                  IME the Iberian TB cross is very Iberian in type and has way more natural ability as a saddle horse than the Freisians I've seen. Neither the TB nor the Freisian is going to contribute much ability to sit or collect.

                  But I realize that hair trumps the day, and black horses are most popular for dressage (was a recent thread on this) so if you want a big black horse with feathers, that is your choice.
                  Hi Scribbler, Fear not! I do not just want that. I do think that the older style, baroque Friesians, not the modern wasp waisted sport types, and more reminiscent of their cavalry horse past. They were not all or always harness horses, and some still reflect that. I agree however, that most don't. Hence my research to find one with a decent back. 😊 I guess I could consider an Iberian TB cross, but leaves me feeling flat. I've never seen one I liked. At all. Perhaps you could prove me wrong and post a link to one that could change my mind? Iberians are my favourite BY FAR. I have extensive experience with them. πŸ’œ

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                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    Finally figured out how to upload a photo of my mare!

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      For every 1 nice tb/fr cross ive seen there are 5 butt ass ugly hide behind the barn ones. No way i would gamble like this

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I think the other thing is adding length in the neck. The thoroughbred/freisian crosses I am seeing do not have much length.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I like your mare a lot! If you're really set on a good using Friesian cross, talk to Iron Spring Farm. At least their stallions are out there competing. Or were. They have
                          ______________________________
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by PandaKO View Post

                            Hi Scribbler, Fear not! I do not just want that. I do think that the older style, baroque Friesians, not the modern wasp waisted sport types, and more reminiscent of their cavalry horse past. They were not all or always harness horses, and some still reflect that. I agree however, that most don't. Hence my research to find one with a decent back. 😊 I guess I could consider an Iberian TB cross, but leaves me feeling flat. I've never seen one I liked. At all. Perhaps you could prove me wrong and post a link to one that could change my mind? Iberians are my favourite BY FAR. I have extensive experience with them. πŸ’œ
                            Offhand no I don't have any links, the horses I know are private horses with no internet presence, and if I do have snapshots, I don't have permission to post them all over the internet.

                            My guess is if you love Iberians, a tb/ Freisians won't do it for you. Do you have any experience with Friesians?

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Lovely mare, nice type. I agree with JB. Talk to ISF if you are dead-set on Friesian.. They would be the authority, I think.

                              I think the Friesian is one of those breeds that suffers from its fan-base and there is a stigma still about the breed; there's two types of Friesians -- the Friesians bred by those that Luff Fluff and just want a pretty horse to look at, and then those that are serious sport-horse breeders (ISF, and MOR, for instance). Unfortunately I think the former out-populates the latter, so it can be really hard to find a true quality Friesian for dressage/riding and a lot of the FriesianXs we see are not from quality Friesians, IMHO... but those Friesians that are quality, are extremely nice, and people don't give this breed enough credit for its people-pleasing personality. It really is like no other breed, when you sit on a Friesian. I am a TB rider by preference, and I just love the Friesian's people-pleasing mentality. Morgans come close, but can be much hotter.

                              Now... if you wanted bone and think hairy is a plus, I might steer you in the direction of Gatsby. He is an Oldenburg, but... really, really nice crossing on TBs. I have seen several of his TB xs now and have liked every one.. quite a turn-around too, because when I first saw him I was not that impressed -- but he is an excellent amateur-horse maker, and is proven to add bone, lengthen, make a big horse, and has several very nice TBx on the ground.
                              AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by PandaKO View Post
                                Finally figured out how to upload a photo of my mare!
                                She's very well put together, a nice TB specimen for sure. If you must breed to a Freisian, I agree with others that have suggested ISF. I think your mare would cross best with a WB or ISH in my opinion.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by PandaKO View Post
                                  To answer another question, Friesian TBs can be registered as Friesian Sporthorses.
                                  I however do not give a hoot about resale value 😊
                                  FWIW, you may not care about resale value *now* but life has a habit of changing and not always in directions we don't anticipate.

                                  While your intentions may be that this is a forever horse, always, IMO, consider resale to give your future horse a soft landing if needed

                                  Having a dog will bless you with both many of the happiest days of your life and one of the worst.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    The thing that Iberians have that no other breed can match is agility and cattiness. They even outrank QH in this regard. They can collect, pirouette, do lateral moves, etc very very easily. The raw scope of their trots vary by individual but they can be taught to do a proper extended trot over time and move quite nicely. It's interesting sometimes looking at them in the paddock, its hard to tell where all that powerful agility comes from because they don't have huge back ends like QH. And some Lusitanos even look front heavy with big necks. I think you really need to see an Iberian in action to know what you've got.

                                    Freisians don't have much agility. If they are finding a slot in dressage these days, it is because of size and a big harness horse trot. People are also looking to Hackneys and Dutch Carriage Horses and draft crosses to get that big trot.

                                    That's because current dressage judging puts an emphasis on natural big gaits from training level on up. People will choose a horse with a natural huge trot rather than agility or a great canter because of the score sheets.

                                    But OP, if you are doing "classical dressage"? This is of course a very broad term and I don't know who.you are training with. But my own coach is in a French training program and i have watched over the years and seen that Iberians excel in that work, and Freisians don't.

                                    I've also seen a fair number of Freisians as the Dutch community here breeds them. I saw a driving exhibition once that had half a dozen vehicles in the arena at once: one horse, two horse, four in hand. Very impressive, but also the trot style varied a lot between horses. Some of them had dressage quality trots and others were more knees up harness horse.

                                    Lovely harness horses.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Very informative thread. I have seen a lot more Friesien crosses available just in the past year. Some very good points in this thread to keep in mind as I look around.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by PandaKO View Post
                                        -My mare does already have good hair, especially for a TB, so I don't care about that much. That would be a fun extra.
                                        She has a lovely tail, can't tell much about the mane. Are you familiar with how much work leg hair can be? Feathers are a pita. Would you be ok if she just got long hair hanging off the back of her fetlock?

                                        -This would be a personal horse for classical dressage, not competition.
                                        A Friesian isn't what I'd chose for classical dressage. Their sit power is not very good. Some are better by conformation, all need to be really worked correctly to get it right.

                                        I'd consider a WB stud, but honestly I'm not too excited about that idea.
                                        May I ask why?

                                        Originally posted by PandaKO View Post
                                        To answer another question, Friesian TBs can be registered as Friesian Sporthorses.
                                        I however do not give a hoot about resale value 😊
                                        You should care a great deal about resale value. The "foal for life" is a great concept, and is no better or worse than someone breeding for resale. But life happens. An acquaintenace is getting a divorce and needs to sell 4 of her "lifer" horses. Fortunately they are lovely horses with amazing pedigrees, and finding quality homes shouldn't be a problem Another recently lost her husband, and is having to sell the farm, and many people in that situation would have to downsize or sell all. Jobs get lost. Critical injuries happen.

                                        Originally posted by beowulf View Post
                                        Now... if you wanted bone and think hairy is a plus, I might steer you in the direction of Gatsby. He is an Oldenburg, but... really, really nice crossing on TBs. I have seen several of his TB xs now and have liked every one.. quite a turn-around too, because when I first saw him I was not that impressed -- but he is an excellent amateur-horse maker, and is proven to add bone, lengthen, make a big horse, and has several very nice TBx on the ground.
                                        Inspectors have said several times how much of a good cross he is on, specifically, TB mares.


                                        ______________________________
                                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by PandaKO View Post
                                          I am considering breeding my TB mare to a Friesian sometime next year. I am looking for recommendations for a Friesian stud who crosses well with TBs.
                                          Looking for a stud with the following qualities:
                                          -3 good gaits, good shoulder movement.
                                          -shorter coupled- no loooong backs
                                          -UPHILL conformation
                                          -good neck, longer neck
                                          -GOOD MIND
                                          -16hh+
                                          -proven dressage performance
                                          -good hair is a plus, duh :P
                                          My girl's foal could use some more bone, and a longer neck. I'll try to add a photo of her. She has awesome hock action, balance, and is extremely smart. Located in Canada! πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦
                                          You could look into the Friesian Connection. Located in Michigan. They have several stallions that are available fresh (one competes at I1) and some via frozen that are competing at Grand Prix. Good luck to you.
                                          I LOVE my Chickens!

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