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Stallions producing Ammy Friendly Dressage horses

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  • Stallions producing Ammy Friendly Dressage horses

    I know I don't post all that much, but I do read here almost daily and I have seen many threads on here that were very helpful. That's what I'm hoping for here. I'm looking for my mare's next "Baby Daddy". I do have 3 stallions in mind for her, but I'm not an expert by any means in breeding. I've just been pretty lucky to have very honest people guide the way.

    OK - my mare is an Arabian who is approved AHS. So I'm looking for Hanoverians that produce Ammy Friendly dressage horses. Good things about the mare that I wish to keep. Love her neck connection and how she uses it. She is very smooth bodied. I also want to keep the tail set - I know not that important, but I like a tail to be placed a little higher vs lower. Still want a round bum. Things about Carli that I want to improve. Longer legs & more freedom through the shoulders. More of an uphill build would be nice too. She's an honest 15h and a big moving mare. Here's link to photos of Carli & her 2009 Hano filly by Escudo II.

    http://s411.photobucket.com/home/tamcam

    I would love to hear your suggestions and why you would chose that stallion for her. 1 of the stallions I'm really looking at is an Oldenburg, so I'm not opposed to taking Carli to another inspection, but I would like to stick with Hanoverians. Thanks to everyone in advance!
    http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

  • #2
    Stripes, are you only going with fresh?

    A couple that come to mind right away are Wolkentanz II and Sir Wanabi. Harvard too, but I think someone posted he may not make a mare "more uphill". Or what about Domiro? I know you have seen many of his offspring at inspections. Very ammy friendly.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by houserabbitz View Post
      Stripes, are you only going with fresh?

      A couple that come to mind right away are Wolkentanz II and Sir Wanabi. Harvard too, but I think someone posted he may not make a mare "more uphill". Or what about Domiro? I know you have seen many of his offspring at inspections. Very ammy friendly.
      Good question - I should have included that Carli may not be a good candidate for frozen. Took a big effort to get her in foal the first time. She took the first try this season, using the same recipe as the last cycle the first season. She does not show heat. And she is a Regumate girl. So, I would like to use fresh cooled one more time to make sure the current recipe to get her pregnant really works or if I just got lucky this year.

      Domiro is a good possibility and one of the 3 on my list.
      http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

      Comment


      • #4
        I know when we presented two Rosenthal fillies to the GOV, the inspector commented that the R line was a good example of great minded riding horses. Rosenthal has been proven I think to cross fantastically with Arabs as well; you may contact Larissa and see what she thinks? I realize he is not approved AHS though so I may have wasted my breath (or fingers as it may be)! LOL

        We LOVE our Furst Impression colt this year, uber-fancy, wow movement and great brain. He is AHS! Very under used as far as I'm concerned! He put length of leg on our short-legged, older style mare and a big, insane gorgeous neck! He is also very elastic. Was rated Gold Premium RPSI (was eligible GOV but it was just plain easier for us logistically to do RPSI). The "F"'s seem to be very good for adding elasticity.

        Honestly we love Apiro too - I know he is not marketed towards dressage but Argentinus produced a heck of a lot of dressage AND jumping horses. He, in my opinion, needs a bit of a lighter mare, so that might be a neat cross. Our Apiro filly this year is a HUGE mover and the type that the inspectors commented could be well suited to dressage (and all three rings, "a rarity" they said). He is also AHS.
        Signature Sporthorses
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        • #5
          Fabuleux, Royal Prince, Bugatti Hilltop would all be good candidates with fresh semen right off the top of my head.
          Mary Lou
          http://www.homeagainfarm.com

          https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

          Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

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          • #6
            Interesting suggestions. I rode a Wolkentanz II mare this weekend that was about as far from an ammy temperament as I have ever ridden in my life (and I spent years breaking horses and riding the difficult ones). I have heard that they can be quirky, but maybe that is not true? This mare was probably one of the most talented and best put together horses I have ever ridden, but easy she was not, at all.

            Domiro puts a nice temperament on a horse, and might be a good cross for an Arabian, I would want to know what he produces there. I have heard about nice offspring, but of the ones I have seen with my own eyes and have ridden, they were all much more hunter-like, and very heavy on the forehand and a bit heavy in front in general. They all have moved flat and/or had smallish strides. I have seen about 5 offspring that are going, from those I would breed for a an all-around or hunter type, and IMO he is not going to fix what you are looking to fix/improve.

            I have had recent experience with a 3 year old Fabuleux filly that is everything you are looking for minus the big booty. She has a gorgeous neck and neck set, is ridiculously uphill in her movement, has more reach and freedom in the shoulder than one could hope for, and her legs come up to my shoulders. She also happens to be dead quiet and I have yet to see her spook at anything. If she is any indication of what Fabuleux produces, then he produces what you are looking for. The only negative I can see so far is she is a solid 16.2 as a 3 year old, but I understand that her dam was a bigger mare.

            Good luck!
            On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

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            • #7
              I can't speak for Wolkentanz II, but I have several Wolkentanz I offspring from two mares who are both R-line (a Rohdiamant and a Rubin Royal). They all have quite good temperaments, though the two from the Rubin Royal mare are hotter than the others. The oldest, who is out of my Rohdiamant mare, is 6 and working beautifully in dressage. She is a sensitive ride, but not at all spooky, quite willing, easy to handle, very uphill, powerful and talented. A competent ammy could undoubtedly ride and enjoy her.

              I guess ammy friendly can mean many things to many people, so maybe more clarification from the OP would be good..
              Mary Lou
              http://www.homeagainfarm.com

              https://www.facebook.com/HomeAgainFarmHanoverians

              Member OMGiH I loff my mares clique

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              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by Perfect Pony View Post
                Interesting suggestions. I rode a Wolkentanz II mare this weekend that was about as far from an ammy temperament as I have ever ridden in my life (and I spent years breaking horses and riding the difficult ones). I have heard that they can be quirky, but maybe that is not true? This mare was probably one of the most talented and best put together horses I have ever ridden, but easy she was not, at all.

                Domiro puts a nice temperament on a horse, and might be a good cross for an Arabian, I would want to know what he produces there. I have heard about nice offspring, but of the ones I have seen with my own eyes and have ridden, they were all much more hunter-like, and very heavy on the forehand and a bit heavy in front in general. They all have moved flat and/or had smallish strides. I have seen about 5 offspring that are going, from those I would breed for a an all-around or hunter type, and IMO he is not going to fix what you are looking to fix/improve.

                I have had recent experience with a 3 year old Fabuleux filly that is everything you are looking for minus the big booty. She has a gorgeous neck and neck set, is ridiculously uphill in her movement, has more reach and freedom in the shoulder than one could hope for, and her legs come up to my shoulders. She also happens to be dead quiet and I have yet to see her spook at anything. If she is any indication of what Fabuleux produces, then he produces what you are looking for. The only negative I can see so far is she is a solid 16.2 as a 3 year old, but I understand that her dam was a bigger mare.

                Good luck!
                THIS is the type of answer I was hoping for! A friend of mine has a 3 yr.old Fabuleux filly that I love. My mare's size has had me thinking that this line may be too big for her? Her filly by Escudo II will be about 15.2h which is perfect for me, but this baby will more than likely be for sale, so size may be more important. I love the uphill that Fabuleux puts on his offspring. I've also heard great things about Bridlewood Farms. Great suggestion - I will add him to my research list!
                http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  What about Dacaprio for an Arab? He's got quite a bit of refined blood, so it's not drastically different body types.

                  On Fabuleux: I LOVE the 2009 Fabuleux I bred. She is stunning, and a huge improvement over the dam in pretty much every way (more uphill, more elastic, better mover in general, shorter & stronger back and loin, better hind end size and shape, etc...). I really like Fabuleux. He might be a good option because he is notorious for putting fantastic canters on his offspring, and Arabs are known to be weak in the canter department at times (can't say for this particular mare, I saw her at Inspection, but can't remember much about her movement). So far the filly has been easy easy easy, nothing really seems to phase her.

                  I saw Fab in person in early 2009, and he's quite impressive. Even out of work, and hairy, he was breathtaking. VERY correct, with excellent legs and feet. Sweet boy too
                  Making Your Ambitions a Reality at Secret Ambition Stables.
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                  • #10
                    Many Weltmeyer sons and grandsons are ammy friendly. Both Wonderful and Widmark (grandson) produce ammy rides, but I am not sure if they will give you what you want in the conformation department. I have written about him in previous posts, but the Widmark gelding I bred was born broke. His temperament was golden, he was so kind and quiet. I don't think Widmark will give you the topline you want though. Every foal has a mother, so I guess you have to ask, how sensitive is your mare? I know lots of people love their Fabuleux offspring for the temperament. They don't always have most beautiful heads, but you don't ride the head, right?

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Home Again Farm View Post
                      I can't speak for Wolkentanz II, but I have several Wolkentanz I offspring from two mares who are both R-line (a Rohdiamant and a Rubin Royal). They all have quite good temperaments, though the two from the Rubin Royal mare are hotter than the others. The oldest, who is out of my Rohdiamant mare, is 6 and working beautifully in dressage. She is a sensitive ride, but not at all spooky, quite willing, easy to handle, very uphill, powerful and talented. A competent ammy could undoubtedly ride and enjoy her.

                      I guess ammy friendly can mean many things to many people, so maybe more clarification from the OP would be good..
                      This foal will most likely be for sale & sold to an Arabian sport horse person. I say that because the foal will be registered Half Arabian too and its more impressive to be Hanoverian in an Arabian show than it is to be Half Arabian at the open shows. So based on this, ammy friendly = light & not spooky. My mare has a sensitive button that makes her less than ammy friendly and I'm looking to tone that down a bit. Her Escudo filly is amazing and easy to work with. Smart little cookie and exactly what I wanted and may do again. But I want to research as many options that may work as possible.
                      http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Dressage_Diva333 View Post
                        What about Dacaprio for an Arab? He's got quite a bit of refined blood, so it's not drastically different body types.

                        On Fabuleux: I LOVE the 2009 Fabuleux I bred. She is stunning, and a huge improvement over the dam in pretty much every way (more uphill, more elastic, better mover in general, shorter & stronger back and loin, better hind end size and shape, etc...). I really like Fabuleux. He might be a good option because he is notorious for putting fantastic canters on his offspring, and Arabs are known to be weak in the canter department at times (can't say for this particular mare, I saw her at Inspection, but can't remember much about her movement). So far the filly has been easy easy easy, nothing really seems to phase her.

                        I saw Fab in person in early 2009, and he's quite impressive. Even out of work, and hairy, he was breathtaking. VERY correct, with excellent legs and feet. Sweet boy too
                        Carli had great scores for movement getting an 8/8 for the trot. But as you said most if not all Arabians can benefit from an improved canter and Carli can definitely use more jump.

                        I personally like Dacaprio's type and he was on my list the first time I bred. I have always thought that he would be a good choice for Carli. I wonder if he has any Arabian foals...
                        http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Fabuleux would have been my suggestion as well. I have a recently-minted 4 year old by Fabuleux and my gelding is everything you seem to be looking for in your original post, including the booty. Except maybe the tailset, I feel like Frankie's is a bit low (which I like as I do hunters primarily and we don't prefer a high set tail).

                          My gelding was bred for dressage, I dabble in that but he's primarily a hunter for me.

                          Very very quiet and amateur friendly without being dull. In fact, he's quite tuned in and sensitive-- he just isn't spooky, hot, or silly. If anything he has a bit of a peek, not a spook-- and not even usually that. He has a good trot but a GREAT, GREAT canter and can canter all day long. The below photos are mainly from when he was 3...

                          Uphill mover (even when in a downhill growth spurt)...

                          http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...ev20101230.jpg (Photo by Chris Tolar)

                          Extremely free through the shoulders...

                          http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...rHunter090.jpg

                          Carts my nervous ammy self around at shows without any issue...

                          http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...ug72010005.jpg

                          And is cute enough to make up for any baby moments ...

                          http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...t=00000004.jpg (Photo by Brenda Carpenter)
                          ~Veronica
                          "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
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                          • #14
                            Contucci should add leg length, a beautiful neck/shoulder connection (along with shoulder freedom), an uphill build, along with a a beautiful topline and temperament.
                            Kim
                            'Like' my facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Calla...946873?sk=wall

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by stripes View Post
                              THIS is the type of answer I was hoping for! A friend of mine has a 3 yr.old Fabuleux filly that I love. My mare's size has had me thinking that this line may be too big for her? Her filly by Escudo II will be about 15.2h which is perfect for me, but this baby will more than likely be for sale, so size may be more important. I love the uphill that Fabuleux puts on his offspring. I've also heard great things about Bridlewood Farms. Great suggestion - I will add him to my research list!
                              I just realized that you actually took pictures of the Fabuleux filly I am talking about just recently, so you have seen her in person.

                              As far as Dacaprio, from my understanding the temperament can also be a little quirky. I was talking with a FEI level rider who is an assistant to a very BNT and happens to have a father who is a Hanoverian breeder in Germany, so this come second hand, but she did not recommend Dacaprio if I wanted to guarentee an easy temperament.
                              On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

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                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by houserabbitz View Post
                                Many Weltmeyer sons and grandsons are ammy friendly. Both Wonderful and Widmark (grandson) produce ammy rides, but I am not sure if they will give you what you want in the conformation department. I have written about him in previous posts, but the Widmark gelding I bred was born broke. His temperament was golden, he was so kind and quiet. I don't think Widmark will give you the topline you want though. Every foal has a mother, so I guess you have to ask, how sensitive is your mare? I know lots of people love their Fabuleux offspring for the temperament. They don't always have most beautiful heads, but you don't ride the head, right?
                                I have heard that the "W" line is not exactly ammy friendly. I do like Wonderful, but his owner felt that Carli was better suited for her other stallion.

                                As for heads... whereas I personally like pretty I know its not the most important. I feel that the Arabian should come through in this area and make for some very nice looking WB crosses. That and Carli did get a"10" for her head at the inspection
                                http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I totally forgot to mention Rubignon. Our filly by him this year is the quietest, easiest, sweetest foal we have ever had out of 25+ (one of our Rosenthal fillies I would say is close second). She is also gorgeous. He improved on the head nicely although sounds like your mare, typical Arab, has it covered there. His semen was great also. Approved AHS. We love her so much we changed plans last minute and bred the mare back for a full sibling.
                                  Signature Sporthorses
                                  www.signaturesporthorses.com

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                                  • #18
                                    Isn't Rubignon registered Oldenburg? Since the OP is breeding an Arab mare, the foal would not be eligible to be registered AHS due to insufficient Hanoverian blood (50% rule).
                                    Kim
                                    'Like' my facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Calla...946873?sk=wall

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                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Callaway View Post
                                      Isn't Rubignon registered Oldenburg? Since the OP is breeding an Arab mare, the foal would not be eligible to be registered AHS due to insufficient Hanoverian blood (50% rule).
                                      I know. But this is the Oldenburg stallion I was referring to in my OP that has me thinking that I would present Carli to GOV.

                                      Just so everyone knows my original list

                                      1.Escudo II
                                      2.Rubignon
                                      3.Benidetto

                                      others that I like

                                      Domiro
                                      Werbellin
                                      Liberty
                                      Locksley

                                      and now adding

                                      Fabuleux
                                      http://www.tamarawiththecamera.com

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                                      • #20
                                        Hmmmm, I didn't think about the Rubignon thing, but good point. But, for such a nice cross presenting GOV is worth the cost and effort, IMO!

                                        I do like the Fabuleuxs I have seen, some have been a bit coarse in the head, which would be my only complaint; but the Arab mare should help there! I like pretty too
                                        Signature Sporthorses
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