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What is with prices??

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  • What is with prices??

    I know this has been discussed in some other threads, but I had to get some breeder opinions. In the last few days of cruising the net I have seen some unbelievable prices - a lovely 2009 foal by a respected hunter sire for $4000, well bred 2 and 3 year olds well under $10,000, in-uteros from good stallions out of impressive mares $6500 and under....

    I understand the tanking of the economy left some people wanting to unload good horses over the last two years or so, but these prices are really surprising me. Is this the direction sport horse breeding is going to take or are these still a reflection of an injured economy?

    We kept breeding through the past few years and have had good luck with sales, but I wonder if our prices are going to be considered competitive if this is the direction we are heading as a whole.

    Thoughts??
    www.elitehuntersales.com

  • #2
    haven't seen that here, prices maybe slightly lower but not that low in my area.
    www.lazyjsporthorses.com

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    • #3
      Slow economy I think. I think certain areas of the horse market and certain geographical areas (and or course certain individuals) are still suffering.

      I am thinking of offering all three of my colts/geldings for a limited time at $5,000. This is basicly what I have in them as they are well bred, registered, GRPs. However, I see the benefit of selling them reasonably to good show homes right now so I can focus on the U/S ponies.
      Whispered Wish Weser-Ems: Breeding quality German Riding Ponies!
      Standing the stallion Burberry
      www.germanridingpony.com
      www.facebook.com/HighlifesBurberry

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      • #4
        I actually just noticed that prices are up, at least in my area! I can't imagine for selling one of my foals for $4,000--that's like, the stud fee and vet bills to get the mare in foal!
        Kim
        'Like' my facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Calla...946873?sk=wall

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        • #5
          The economy is squeezing the daylights out of most of us and discretionary spending money is just that much less.

          To me it seems the <$4K market is active, and then again the high $20K +

          Speaking of pricing, as someone touched on in another thread, these types of Wanted searches astound me: A been-there-done-that, bombproof packer who is sound, "pops over small x's" and has some show experience. Must be 16h+ and under 10years old...and so forth. Budget max? $2,000. The longer the list of requirements, the smaler their budget. People wanting good, solid citizens for uber-greenie backyard pedigree prices.
          GreenGate Stables
          http://ggstables.webs.com/

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          • Original Poster

            #6
            FWIW, I found these ones in varied geographical areas. Also saw a number of approved TB mares (with good scores) in foal to popular stallions for $3000-$4000. Just seemed really low to me. I too had felt that prices were on the rebound, and personally, we have gotten fair prices for our latest sales. But, my recent finds have really shocked me.

            GGS I have seen wanted ads similar to what you are describing. Also ones that want something with A circuit miles and good results in core divisions for under 10K.
            www.elitehuntersales.com

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            • #7
              I've seen the same thing, and when people do that it, it messes up the market for all of us. Now I know that sometimes people really need to sell, so they drop the prices to sell quick, but it still makes it much harder for us. I've seen in utero foals with good breeding for $4900 and so forth... 2 yos for $6500... yuck. It's like when your neighbor wants to sell their house quick so prices it really low - it screws up the whole neighborhood due to comps, etc. If we all stuck together on prices, maybe we could keep the decline from happening!

              We have also gotten fair prices on our latest sales, not great, but fair. But, we do want to sell our stock because we don't want to have 5 weanlings to winter over.

              We've also noticed that people tend to equate price to quality (I guess why wouldn't you - if Mercedes were cheap would they carry the same prestige?). Two times we've had exceptional youngsters we really didn't want to sell (fillies), so we raised the price significantly, and sure enough, we got more inquiries on them, and ended up selling both for the most we've ever gotten for any of them. So, perhaps people see the high price tag and just automatically think it must be better? We have a super, super nice filly this year and we're thinking about doing that with her - we do want to sell, but when you price them lower to try and sell quicker, it's like folks don't think they are nice enough because surely they'd be more expensive!

              Then again, one of our nicest Hanoverian foals this year we had someone offer 5k - when she is priced at just about double - citing other low prices (such as a 3 yo filly for $8k) as the reason. We said, no thanks, we'll keep her.

              But, when I search say Equine.com for 2010 foals of Warmblood breeds (true apples to apples like AHS, GOV foals, etc), prices seem to be $8-12k for the most part, which is a good sign.
              Signature Sporthorses
              www.signaturesporthorses.com

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              • #8
                Ugh. Arizonard, there's a small breeder here selling a 2010 foal by a well-known hunter stallion out of (I think I don't know more then that) a decent mare for $4K...

                I mean... WTH? That's what it costs to put it on the ground, at a bare minimum! Why why why?

                I understand the whole wanting to "make horses affordable for all", but dang, this type of price is just giving it away! Or that "I am just doing it for fun", huh huh. Loosing money is such a fun game, isn't it?

                I mean sheesh, if you have that sort of $$$, how about sending it to feed malnourished kids in Africa??

                Yes, I am a tad bitter. It makes our "realistic prices for the cost of putting that foal on the ground" look plain abusive if we get compared, and we do obviously, to those type of prices...
                www.EquusMagnificus.ca
                Breeding & Sales
                Facebook | YouTube

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                • #9
                  I just listed a GOV Premium yearling for 10k...........out of an ELite imported mare by an Elite stallion. I thought that it was cheap and that I was going to get a bunch of response quick. Instead, I saw horses that were registered (but not necessarily as well bred etc) for $2500-$4000.
                  Holly
                  www.ironhorsefrm.com
                  Oldenburg foals and young prospects
                  LIKE us on Facebook!

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                  • #10
                    I'm on the other side: I recently purchased.

                    I was looking for specific high performance dressage lines, but most of what I was looking for was a minimum of $10-20k. VERY few of the horses I saw for under $10k were what I'd consider top quality warmbloods.... many of them were '2nd tier' registered....

                    For reference, I was looking within 1000 miles of me (Michigan). I ended up with a 2 year old KWPN by Idocus out of a Keur Olympic Ferro mare and was in the price range I mentioned above.
                    Last edited by Concordia; Aug. 9, 2010, 09:55 AM. Reason: correct typo -
                    Concordia means "Harmony" in Latin.
                    Full Time Dressage Addict

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Concordia View Post
                      I'm on the other side: I recently purchased.

                      I was looking for specific high performance dressage lines, but most of what I was looking for was a minimum of $10-20k. VERY few of the horses I saw for under $10k were what I'd consider top quality warmbloods.... many of them were '2nd tier' registered....

                      For reference, I was looking within 1000 miles of me (Michigan). I ended up with a 3 year old KWPN by Idocus out of a Keur Olympic Ferro mare and was in the price range I mentioned above.
                      Was your 3 year-old under saddle yet?
                      www.EquusMagnificus.ca
                      Breeding & Sales
                      Facebook | YouTube

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by EquusMagnificus View Post
                        Was your 3 year-old under saddle yet?

                        OPPS! Typo. He just turned two. Sorry
                        Concordia means "Harmony" in Latin.
                        Full Time Dressage Addict

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My opinion on that is that it might be expensive to breed a foal, but it is easy. What is difficult is to breed good foals. I don't know anyone on this forum and my opinion is not based on any situation above. However, I generaly see that breeder think their horses as better that what they are. What make the price of a horse is not the money you put in it. You can ask a thoroughbred breeder how often he would selle an average foal lower then the stud fee. What make the price of a horse is talent and the work you put in the horse.

                          In America, their is not a huge market for foals, yearlings, 2 yo or unbroken 3, 4, 5 yo etc. Do not, then expect high prices for them, except for very exceptional foals. Money is for well started talented horses. Those horses are bought on show grounds, when serious buyers can see them. All of that costs even more money but that, I believe, is where investments can create a plusvalue. The foal is just the start, value is added after the birth.

                          I always say the same thing, when you hang out around shows and talk to professionnals, you will notice that the market has slowed down but big money is still paid for good horses and professionnals have difficulty finding those good horses. When they go to Europe, they will find a lot of good horses, well started at reasonnable price. If you can offer them those horses, then you will find your price.

                          Our mare is well known in the region. She has great papers and has show up to 1m40 in high prelims. Afterward, she jumped up to 1m20 with a good amateur rider. We want to keep the first filly she get but we began receiving offers as soon as she was confirmed pregnant. Her first foal was sold for good money before he was weaned. Other mares in the same field, with good papers but unproven in competition or with no known progeny have nice foals that are hard to sell or receive offers to buy for less money then it costed to breed them. Fact is that for most of buyers, those horses are a gamble and do not worth much money.

                          I think that, notwithstanding the economic situation, it has always been an illusion that every 4 yo horse market value is 15K and up.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            On the flip side of this...

                            I have a friend who has been breeding horses and making a good profit for 25+ years (as a hobby). She sells most of hers as weanlings (for good prices) and the remaining ones as yearlings. She has a large farm and it is not terribly expensive for her to keep & feed them. She will sell any 'leftovers' at a blow-out price. Yes, this may annoy others, but every day at the farm they adding up on expenditures. They must eat, have their feet trimmed, routine vet care, eventually training is needed, and what if they have a severe injury?? There isn't a rush to sell them but cutting a loss isn't a terrible idea if you're selling the others...And if you are smart, you can save $$ with stallion auctions or by having quality mares that are given discount breedings. Repeat breedings also offer discounts. Not that this will always be the case, but you don't always know what it cost the other person to get their mare in foal And if they are doing any of their own repro...
                            Anyways, just food for thought.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              just this past weekend

                              I did a little survey of what equine.com and warmbloodsforsale.com 2010 babies are being advertised for. This is what I found. I omitted the very high, one advertised @ 45K and the very low, 4k and less. These are averages.


                              equine.com fillies jumper bred $8684.00 dressage bred $9392.00
                              warmbloodsforsale.com fillies jumper bred $8500 (only 4) dressage bred $13500.00

                              equine.com colts jumper bred $8340.00 dressage bred $10200.00
                              warmbloodsforsale.com colts jumper bred (none advertised) dressage bred $9740.00

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                If some of the prices you are speaking of are broodmares and especially TB broodmares - yes I can believe it. There are plenty of "good" broodmares available for free or really cheap right now. Most breeders are only breeding their best and selling or culling the others. so, I wouldn't expect TB broodies to be priced for much and I doubt that a person would get 3000 -4000 for a TB broodie.

                                I haven't seen the prices considerably lower on foals around here, but, considering the economy prices in every catagory are down a little.

                                I do agree on the horse wanted adds. Sorry, many of those "wanted's" are dreaming in my opinion.

                                I have had multiple people email and ask if I wanted "trade" for another horse. Ah, NOT! The lastest was someone wanting to trade a 4 year old Premium Old mare that is quiet for anyone, jumping courses, show experience with nothing wrong with her for a YEARLING! ah, no, not interested thank you. I think people asking if you want to trade on one of your sale horses is obnoxious!

                                Eowyn
                                Http://www.serendipitysporthorses.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Cumano View Post
                                  My opinion on that is that it might be expensive to breed a foal, but it is easy.
                                  Breed for a couple of years and get back to us on that.
                                  www.juniperridgeranch.us
                                  Visit us on Facebook!

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                                  • #18
                                    Well I have to disagree that selling anything for thousands of dollars (whether 4000 or 40000) is "giving something away". To most people who no longer have access to credit and "free money" 400 can be a lot of money. You may be losing some money, but people lose money on transactions all the time. From a buyers point of view, most of the horses I have looked at I would be losing considerable money on in the long run (with board, care, and a soft market where if I had to resell I would be lucky to get back purchase price). For 99% of people, having horses is a money losing proposition from the get go.

                                    The fact is, you breeders have a smaller and smaller pool of perspective buyers. Like the middle class itself, the middle tier of horse buyers is rapidly disappearing.

                                    IMO the best you can do is breed less, breed the best, and hope your higher end sales help make up for the ones you might have to take a loss on.
                                    On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Molly Malone View Post
                                      Breed for a couple of years and get back to us on that.
                                      I refer you to the sentence just following that one. It reads as follows:

                                      What is difficult is to breed good foals
                                      Maybe I didn't choose my words right. I know it is a lot of work, sleepless nights etc... The point remains that if you have the money and are willing to put a lot of time in it, you can have a foal. Proof is the number of foals that are on the market. The point I wanted to make is that is not what makes the value of a horse, it is all that follows.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        LMAO Too true!

                                        Originally posted by Molly Malone View Post
                                        Breed for a couple of years and get back to us on that.
                                        I swear after reading some of the threads on Repo I am convinced you must be a shaman/vet/farrier/therapist/chrio with a bit of gambler thrown in to get the mix right. Add the apple cider and baking soda for a chance at the right sex and then the all mighty neurotic mare watch and pray it makes it to weaning without splints, tubes, wraps or mean moms. Oh and you need to get a halter on it, trailer it to the shows for mileage, gotta be perfect for the farrier and leading before baby goes home. Yeesh!
                                        Adoring fan of A Fine Romance
                                        Originally Posted by alicen:
                                        What serious breeder would think that a horse at that performance level is push button? Even so, that's still a lot of buttons to push.

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