• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Long shot....trying to ID a half Trak

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Long shot....trying to ID a half Trak

    Born in 1992, sold at a dispersal auction in 1993.

    Anyone have any ideas?
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

  • #2
    How do you know she's a half Trakehener? If she has papers, the breeder will be on the papers. If she doesn't have papers then again, how do you know she's a half Trakehner?

    The ATA office are immensely helpful with this sort of thing.
    www.juniperridgeranch.us
    Visit us on Facebook!

    Comment


    • #3
      lol...I know the horse world is small, but you have to give us a little more info. Color, markings, what auction was the horse sold at, mare, stallion or gelding, bloodlines, etc., etc.
      www.DaventryEquestrian.com
      Home of Oldenburg, Westphalian & RPSI approved pony stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
      Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness www.EquineAppraisers.com

      Comment


      • #4
        And which half was TK? (dam or sire)

        If it is the sire that was TK I have personally found that the SO is much better than the office on the older breedings on who the dam might be that was bred. This is because most of the SOs (not all but most) keep such good records of who they breed their stallion to that if you can narrow it down to a year they can pretty much figure out who the mare was and THEN the office is good on figuring out which foal it was.

        If you get someone REALLY organized you find out all kinds of info!
        Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by stoicfish
          Seriously?

          If someone has an answer, I am going to very impressed.
          I would be also, as well as very pleased, but the Trak breed is relatively limited in numbers....it's not like I'm trying to ID a quarter horse. And most people on COTH are helpful and friendly...I've been contacted by one person who knew the mare, her daughter Sophie as a foal and another who has Sophie's full brother.

          The sire is Falke. The mare in question is gray, named Beeza, born in '92, sold at a dispersal auction in '93. Her dam is supposedly a Connemara named Bitters.
          I have contacted the person who owned Falke in '91, the ATA and the auction company PAS, who ran most of the horse auctions in the area, all to no avail.
          I wasn't always a Smurf
          Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
          "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
          The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

          Comment


          • #6
            What specifically are you trying to find out? You have the info on the dam, sire, etc... The appropriate registeries should be able to tell you who the last people that owned them were (assuming that the mare was registered). If you find the dam's last owner you would have the info on who the filly was sold to... I guess I'm confused as to what you are trying to find out. Really vague question. The auction company should have record of who sold the horse and who they sold it to...

            I can understand not wanting to post some things publically but really you have to ask the question to get the answer.
            Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Beeza evidently had at least 3 owners....I know the last two, but not the one who presumably should have registered her. Neither of the two have any info on her

              She has produced some very nice Irish Sport Horses when bred to RID's but if I could prove she was by Falke I would consider breeding her to a Trakehner or possibly Silver Twist if he is still standing .

              However, I just might stick with the IDHS
              Last edited by carolprudm; Jul. 29, 2010, 12:27 PM.
              I wasn't always a Smurf
              Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
              "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
              The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

              Comment


              • #8
                If Falke has DNA on file, then you can do a DNA test, no? I'm almost certain the ATA can help with that.

                So you are looking for her breeder and possibly for who was standing Falke in 1992/3? The ATA should be able to help with the SO - and hope the SO kept records of who semen was shipped to? Or did they ship semen then? If Live Cover, should be a bit easier to remember?
                www.juniperridgeranch.us
                Visit us on Facebook!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by carolprudm View Post
                  Beeza evidently had at least 3 owners....I know the last two, but not the one who presumably should have registered her. Neither of the two have any info on her

                  She has produced some very nice Irish Sport Horses when bred to RID's but if I could prove she was by Falke I would consider breeding her to a Trakehner or possibly Silver Twist if he is still standing .

                  However, given some of the response here I just might stick with the IDHS
                  This actually has given more information than your other posts. Your first post is just that you are trying to ID a half TK that was sold at an auction in 1993 (dispersal sale rather). No info on what you are looking for other than ID, didn't know it was a mare even until the next post. Then we find out that you are looking for a mare's info that is by Falke and out of a Conn mare. OK, so what OTHER info are you looking for? You know the sire, you sound like you know the dam, so you can look up any info regarding bloodlines etc. I presumed you are looking for info on the owners. So now you state that you know she has had 3 owners - presumably the breeder, 2 people beofre you? and now you. sounds like you are tryining to track down info on the breeder? OK... I go back to my original statement of check with the CONN registery - if the dam was registered and the dam is a Conn, see if they have the dam's owner at the time - presumably that person would have been the one to breed your mare?

                  Now, if you are trying to get your mare registered, I would go with the following. Contact the office, tell them you have a half breed TK mare that is older. By the stalliion Falke. You don't have the DNA or the breed cert. You want to register D book TK. You will prob have to get up with Falke's last owner to see if they happent to have a breed cert or if they had him on the stallion report as having bred a Conn mare that particular year.

                  The OTHER alternative - the mare is at best a D book mare (unless she was really out of a TK mare and no one knew it). If you breed her to an approved ATA stallion you are still only going to get D book papers so you don't "have" to register her. Frankly that would be the cheaper route to go.

                  Sorry if you thought any of the above responses were snotty or unhelpful but at least in my case it was confusing to know what you were looking for specifically and needed more info.
                  Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    ACPS has no record of a mare named "Bitters" I suspect it's a nickname

                    I have had no response from the ATA.

                    Falke's owner at the time of breeding has said she would try to locate the records but hasn't gotten back to me.

                    I have contacted PAS to see if they had any record of a dispersal auction in 1993....they do many of the auctions around here....but they haven't gotten back to me.

                    The person I got Beeza from has no info.

                    The person who bought Beeza at the auction and sold her to the person above has no info.
                    I wasn't always a Smurf
                    Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I still go back to my response of if you are just thinking of breeding this mare to an ATA stallion and want papers on the resulting foal the most that the foal is elig for regardless of the dam's registration status is D book. I agree that it would be NICE to have your mare registered etc, but given the circumstances the best course of action at this stage in the game is to breed your mare and register the foal D book (which even if the mare is registered is still all the resulting foal would get). Saves you HUNDREDS of dollars doing this, plus the aggravation of trying to track down the old sale papers and so forth.

                      I say this with regards to the mare's registration papers because she is half Conn so not possible in any way shape or form for her to get a higher set of papers herself (which is at this point you will be spending more than $500 on her papers, DNA, etc and the time of tracking it all down). Any foal by any TK stallion would still be ineligible to be in a higher book and could not be presented for breeding approvals.

                      Sorry that the others involved have been so hard to get up with - been there done it got the T shirt so know how you feel.
                      Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Was one of the previous owners Phillip Buckler? He owned a stallion by Falke, and I believe Causeway Farm's dispersal sale was around that time? Total shot in the dark...

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Thanks, I'll probably stick with the IDHSNA since her foals by an RID can be inspected Irish Draught Sport Horse.
                          I wasn't always a Smurf
                          Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                          "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                          The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by carolprudm View Post
                            I would be also, as well as very pleased, but the Trak breed is relatively limited in numbers....it's not like I'm trying to ID a quarter horse. And most people on COTH are helpful and friendly...I've been contacted by one person who knew the mare, her daughter Sophie as a foal and another who has Sophie's full brother.

                            The sire is Falke. The mare in question is gray, named Beeza, born in '92, sold at a dispersal auction in '93. Her dam is supposedly a Connemara named Bitters.
                            I have contacted the person who owned Falke in '91, the ATA and the auction company PAS, who ran most of the horse auctions in the area, all to no avail.
                            Falke was approved OLD/NA ISR. You might try contacting them as well; they may be able to help you. I believe at the time period you are referencing his owner was filing reports with that registry, not the ATA.
                            Worth a shot anyway.

                            Also, Holly Jeanne who posts on this board has a Falke daughter bred by his last owner. She worked with the ATA to get her registered - you might try PM-ing her - might be able to give you some information.

                            Sue
                            Last edited by SueL; Jul. 30, 2010, 12:09 AM. Reason: add information
                            "Horsemanship is not merely a matter of bodily skills, but is based on scholarship and, therefore, is a matter of the mind and intellect." Charles de Kunffy

                            http://www.equiimages.com

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              You really didn't have to reply you know....

                              Originally posted by stoicfish
                              Your next post gave much, much more info so the very helpful people here that are not "Men Who Stare at Goats Members" can help you out.
                              http://www.americantrakehner.com/Res...?ID=OSB-E-S213

                              .
                              In general an open ended question, "What do you think about????"
                              often gets more useful information than "Do you think A or B?"


                              For example "I have an unregistered small and long backed mare. Who should I breed her to to produce a jumper?"
                              will probably get more helpful responses than "I have a small long backed mare. Should I breed her to Silver Twist or O'Leary's Irish Diamond to produce a jumper?"

                              FWIW, of the two I will probably go with OLID
                              I wasn't always a Smurf
                              Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                              "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                              The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by SueL View Post
                                Falke was approved OLD/NA ISR. You might try contacting them as well; they may be able to help you. I believe at the time period you are referencing his owner was filing reports with that registry, not the ATA.
                                Worth a shot anyway.

                                Also, Holly Jeanne who posts on this board has a Falke daughter bred by his last owner. She worked with the ATA to get her registered - you might try PM-ing her - might be able to give you some information.

                                Sue
                                Thank you for that bit of info. I will contact OLD NA

                                I have been contacted by a person with a chestnut mare by Falke though I can't recall her name ATM
                                I wasn't always a Smurf
                                Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                                "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                                The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Silver Twist is still standing!!! https://sites.google.com/site/silvertwiststallion/

                                  Comment

                                  Working...
                                  X