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Regumate and stud colts

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  • Regumate and stud colts

    Posting this for a friend at the barn I board at.
    Last year my friend rescued ( bought)a mare at a sale , she was severely underweight and in all over terrible shape .
    Turns out she was also in foal, and had a foal in Jan
    She has worked with him and he was pretty spunky but he ties, leads and loads in the trailer.
    He dropped about a months ago and was scheduled to be gelded in the fall, but he has turned into a monster, charging the barn workers and going crazy in his stall.
    Vet has suggested putting him on Regumate until the weather cools and he can be gelded.
    He was pretty vague about how long it would take to calm him down, my friend needs to tell the barn owner something before she gets evicted!
    Anybody have any experience with this?
    If it takes a long time to know kick in maybe she should consider other options.

  • #2
    Something doesn’t quite seem right in Denmark? A 6 month old colt is being that much of a monster? How much turn out time is he getting? I have had some studdy colts, but 6 months is pretty early for them to be doing much than playing. I normally would be just considering weaning at this time.

    I would worry about about playing with hormones this early in his growth stage, but that is for a his vet to officially green light. If that is how they think they need to survive the next few months past fly season... so be it. Or do a closed incision and keep him in hospital.

    Comment


    • #3
      First that is amazingly early for a colts tescticles to drop. Second a foal should be on pasture anyway not in a stall. Third, does Regumate control testosterone production? Really? Okay googled it, and yes it does.

      Why not just geld the colt now?

      Comment


      • #4
        I have a 5 month old colt, testicles dropped since day 1. He can be naughty, but that's totally unrelated to hormones, and all about being a young rambunctious boy horse. He's brought in to eat grain, and goes right back outside. Occasionally when the wind picks up, or the tractor bangs loudly nearby, his tail flips over his back and he tries to walk beside me on two legs, dragging me around.

        Such behavior is immediately corrected by sending him forward (rearing) or backing him up (dragging), depending on the circumstances. Most of the time he is a good dude and knows the boundaries. But, he's a toddler and will have a fit now and then. It's normal and will happen with or without testicles, and with proper handling horses will outgrow it as they mature.
        “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
        ? Albert Einstein

        ~AJ~

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Thank you all for answering, I am sure this colt would be better served if the barn helpers had some experience with rank colts.
          However this is a small boarding barn ,and some of the helpers are teenage girls working off their board.
          So the goal is to keep them safe when turning this guy out to the pasture and cleaning his stall.
          I was hoping someone with some knowledge of Regumate for behavior issues would chime in.
          Of course is owner is open to other ideas and she is going to have someone come out and work with him,but if the Regumate would keep the girls at the barn safe, then that would be great.

          Comment


          • #6
            Could you shift him to pasture board while he is waiting to be gelded? Although I have to say that gelding does not change a personality as much as one hopes--at least in my one personal experience.
            "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
            Thread killer Extraordinaire

            Comment


            • #7
              It is much more likely that the inappropriate handling of him by people who shouldn't be handling young horses of any gender is the cause for this behavior, than it is likely that it's hormones, meaning, Regumate is unlikely to do anything

              Obviously this is hindsight, but the colt should have been gelded in late Winter/early Spring, depending on the conditions. 6 months is not at all early for testicles to drop. Many are born with them descended, though many of those will ascend again for a bit before coming back down permanently.

              https://thehorse.com/152010/regumate...stud-behavior/
              Altrenogest (brand name Regumate) is a synthetic progestin that mimics certain actions of progesterone in horses. The concern for its effect on stallion behavior is probably based on reports that behavior can be modified in some geldings that act aggressive and stallion-like. It is highly unlikely that a similar response can be expected in an intact stallion because testicular production of testosterone and estrogens should completely override the progesterone effect. In other words, it is extremely doubtful that it will work on a stallion.
              http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/Docum...mate-apr09.pdf
              Treatment resulted in reduced hormone levels (LH, testosterone, estrogen conjugates and inhibin), minor alterations in stallion behavior,
              http://www.equine-reproduction.com/b...tml?1155586324
              Regumate was researched as far as its effect on stallion sexual behaviour and found to have a reducing effect in younger stallions but little or no effect in older stallions where the behaviour was primarily learned and not solely hormonal.
              So no, no way would I do this, because not only will it not change this type of behavior, it may set people up for thinking things are safer than they are.

              A competent trainer needs to come in to first help the colt get a handle on his behavior, and then help the owner and ONE trusted worker to properly handle and train him.
              ______________________________
              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, I would think that more problems will be caused by having incompetent handling of a foal, than by having no handling at all, or very little

                This kind of lower end lesson barn set up or whatever it is, is not appropriate for a foal. He should been taught to halter lead by a trainer that knows foals and then turned out to 24/7 pasture in a small herd with his mother. After he is weaned he can stay with the herd and learn some manners. Best if the herd has another foal.

                The situation as described is like putting a 3 year old boy in a grade two class and then looking for Ritalin to make him sit still for 6 hours a day.

                Comment


                • #9
                  We know he's turned out, and stalled, but not how many hours of each. Ideally yes they'd all be out 24x7, but that isn't always possible, and even when it's not, the right handling doesn't create or allow little terrorists.
                  ______________________________
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JB View Post
                    ...the right handling doesn't create or allow little terrorists.

                    This is so true, for all age horses but especially 2 and under. Equine terrorists are caused by poor management, not hormones.

                    It sounds like this farm is not a safe place for an immature horse. I agree that no handling is much better than bad handling, both for him and for the inexperienced barn workers.
                    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
                    ? Albert Einstein

                    ~AJ~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JB View Post
                      We know he's turned out, and stalled, but not how many hours of each. Ideally yes they'd all be out 24x7, but that isn't always possible, and even when it's not, the right handling doesn't create or allow little terrorists.
                      Yes, if he was being handled by knowledgeable people on a breeding farm the daily walk could be an excellent learning experience.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sounds like a lack of manners and proper handling to me!! He needs more of both as well as LOTS of turnout time with other youngsters who can drain some of his energy and teach him herd rules. Few domestic horses are born bad!! It takes a lot of improper handling...too much grain....too much stall time to ruin a good prospect!!
                        www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
                        Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If I were the BO I'd not allow anyone besides myself and the owner to handle him. I have dealt with lots of babies, a few of them similar to what you're describing, and they are NOT for inexperienced handlers. The easiest and best way to fix this is to turn him out with some broodmares who will put manners on him -- horsey justice, if you will. I realize this may not be possible but it's nearly foolproof IMO.

                          I wonder how momma mare tolerates his behavior? If she's not great at disciplining her foal this will make your friend's job harder. I knew one colt who had a way-too-tolerant mother and he could be a holy terror, even with good handling and even at a very young age.
                          I love my Econo-Nag!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Also worth noting that exposing those young girls working off their board to regumate comes with a lot of heady risks. While I can't imagine they'd be dosing the colt, they can still be exposed handling his feed bucket.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If there is an older gelding, he can also help give young horses manners. My babies grew up in a pasture with such a gelding, and he was not shy in correcting bad behavior.
                              "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                              Thread killer Extraordinaire

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Scribbler View Post
                                First that is amazingly early for a colts tescticles to drop.

                                I have to disagree. With most of our foals, Warmblood foals and Welsh Pony foals, they are usually dropped within the first week after being born.

                                Over the last 20 years, I have had two colts that were absolute hellions by the time they were 6 months of age, despite normal and regular handling. Hormones were through the roof and they were both absolute bastards. lol After gelding, both turned back into perfect foals and eventually went on to be two of our top pony hunters. I agree that being handled by barn staff is not going to help the issue. If it were me, I would geld ASAP and not wait until fall.
                                www.DaventryEquestrian.com
                                Home of Welsh Cob stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
                                Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness
                                www.EquineAppraisers.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  This is slightly off topic but here's a recent article on the danger (to people) of handling regumate: https://www.paulickreport.com/horse-...like-regumate/

                                  Having bred a number of foals myself, I agree with others who have said the colt's behavior is more likely caused by improper handling than rogue hormones, and regumate won't fix that.

                                  www.laurienberenson.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Kids should neither handle colts or Regumate.

                                    Your friend needs to find a new barn.

                                    The colt needs to be gelded asap.

                                    Your friend needs to find a trainer.
                                    ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                                    Originally posted by LauraKY
                                    I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                                    HORSING mobile training app

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Daventry View Post

                                      I have to disagree. With most of our foals, Warmblood foals and Welsh Pony foals, they are usually dropped within the first week after being born.

                                      Over the last 20 years, I have had two colts that were absolute hellions by the time they were 6 months of age, despite normal and regular handling. Hormones were through the roof and they were both absolute bastards. lol After gelding, both turned back into perfect foals and eventually went on to be two of our top pony hunters. I agree that being handled by barn staff is not going to help the issue. If it were me, I would geld ASAP and not wait until fall.
                                      Ok I stand corrected!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Is there a breeding farm in the area that he could be boarded at until he's gelded? They are more likely to have the experience needed and a turnout situation that might help with manners.

                                        Comment

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