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Using Lights

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  • Using Lights

    So I discussed putting my mare under lights with my vet today, and I'm going to start.
    BUT I wanted to know what method you more experienced breeders use? He mentioned two, but has been on the road since yesterday (taking hay to Aiken from NH in a snowstorm..), and was a bit tired and flakey so I didn't press him for details.

    The other question I have is since I'm planning on doing ET with this mare, does the recipient mare have to be under lights as well? (and please pardon me if this is a really stupid question ) - since the recipient mare will be cycled with regumate anyway, does it matter if she's naturally cycling first?

    Thanks so much!!
    -Jessica

  • #2
    Originally posted by AppJumpr08 View Post
    So I discussed putting my mare under lights with my vet today, and I'm going to start.
    BUT I wanted to know what method you more experienced breeders use? He mentioned two, but has been on the road since yesterday (taking hay to Aiken from NH in a snowstorm..), and was a bit tired and flakey so I didn't press him for details.
    There is an article on our website that goes into the various methods used for early cyclicity in the mare Go here: http://www.equine-reproduction.com/articles/early.htm

    The other question I have is since I'm planning on doing ET with this mare, does the recipient mare have to be under lights as well? (and please pardon me if this is a really stupid question ) - since the recipient mare will be cycled with regumate anyway, does it matter if she's naturally cycling first?
    Regumate does NOT induce cycles in the mare. It "can" assist in trying to synchronize cycles in recip and donor mares, but because mares can and do ovulate in the face of progesterone, it is not the most effective method. When trying to synchronize mares for embryo transfer, we recommend using P&E (progesterone and estradiol). Not only is it more effective, but it will also give you tighter window of ovulation.

    Hope that helps!

    Kathy St.Martin
    Equine Reproduction Short Courses
    http://www.equine-reproduction.com
    Only 10 days left of our holiday enrollment special!

    Thanks so much!![/QUOTE]
    Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
    Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

    Comment


    • #3
      You do need to put the recipient mares under lights if you are putting the donor mare under lights and wanting to get an early start.
      Already excited about our 2016 foals! Expecting babies by Indoctro, Diamant de Semilly, Zirocco Blue and Calido!
      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
        There is an article on our website that goes into the various methods used for early cyclicity in the mare Go here: http://www.equine-reproduction.com/articles/early.htm



        Regumate does NOT induce cycles in the mare. It "can" assist in trying to synchronize cycles in recip and donor mares, but because mares can and do ovulate in the face of progesterone, it is not the most effective method. When trying to synchronize mares for embryo transfer, we recommend using P&E (progesterone and estradiol). Not only is it more effective, but it will also give you tighter window of ovulation.

        Hope that helps!

        Kathy St.Martin
        Equine Reproduction Short Courses
        http://www.equine-reproduction.com
        Only 10 days left of our holiday enrollment special!


        Kathy,
        Thank you that does help!!
        I should have said hormones instead of regumate.. I know regumate doesn't induce cycles... blond typing moment

        How much of an effect do cold temperatures have on the mare when using lights? I'm in New Hampshire, and we are having a COLD winter - it's currently 3 degrees out right now - the article mentions that colder temps can be an issue... how much of an issue are we talking about?
        -Jessica

        Comment


        • #5
          From a regular breeding standpoint, not ET. My friends did this w/ a maiden mare last year and starting bringing her in in November for 10-12 hours a day and out at night. It's cold here, too in the winter and that didn't seem to matter. Used to start foaling in January. Anywho... this mare came in and was ready to breed in March, was taken to the stallion station to be bred and settled. She's due mid February.

          Good luck!
          A Merrick N Dream Farm
          Proud Member of "Someone Special to me serves in the Military" Clique

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by AppJumpr08 View Post
            Kathy,
            Thank you that does help!!
            I should have said hormones instead of regumate.. I know regumate doesn't induce cycles... blond typing moment

            How much of an effect do cold temperatures have on the mare when using lights? I'm in New Hampshire, and we are having a COLD winter - it's currently 3 degrees out right now - the article mentions that colder temps can be an issue... how much of an issue are we talking about?
            The biggest problem is that your mare will lose her winter coat, so break out the extra heavy blankets. Obviously, Mother Nature doesn't want babies born in miserable times of year. And, quite honestly, I personally don't want foals born when it's cold, either. I've got enough on my plate without bucking the "system" <smile>. I've just found it's much easier to attempt to breed mares when they were meant to be bred. And fortunately, with sporthorse breeding, having early foals just isn't that essential. So, if they were "my" mares, I'd just wait until April or May and shoot for a spring foal... Or, you can try and make sure your mares are warm enough and you don't miss the lights being on at the appropriate time for the appropriate length of time <grin>. Your call!

            Kathy St.Martin
            Equine Reproduction Short Courses
            http://www.equine-reproduction.com
            Only 10 days left of our holiday enrollment special!
            Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
            Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I think the main reason my vet suggested putting her under lights is that we're trying to do ET and then have her carry her own foal... so it would be best if we have her cycling by March or April... right? I have no desire to have an early foal for the sake of having an early foal, but it seems that with the plans we have, the earlier the start the better...

              The other part of my own puzzle is that I'm *hoping* to be in Aiken, SC for the birth(s), which means the babies can (should?) be born earlier then up here in the Frozen North - I'm assuming that by June and July its awfully hot for a brand new young one in South Carolina?

              It would be so much easier if this mare wasn't turning 21 this year... I'd feel less panicky about the impending end to her reproductive career... and I still don't have a filly out of her Three lovely boys, but I still have my heart set on having a daughter as well..
              -Jessica

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
                The biggest problem is that your mare will lose her winter coat, so break out the extra heavy blankets. Obviously, Mother Nature doesn't want babies born in miserable times of year. And, quite honestly, I personally don't want foals born when it's cold, either. I've got enough on my plate without bucking the "system" <smile>. I've just found it's much easier to attempt to breed mares when they were meant to be bred. And fortunately, with sporthorse breeding, having early foals just isn't that essential. So, if they were "my" mares, I'd just wait until April or May and shoot for a spring foal... Or, you can try and make sure your mares are warm enough and you don't miss the lights being on at the appropriate time for the appropriate length of time <grin>. Your call!

                Kathy St.Martin
                Equine Reproduction Short Courses
                http://www.equine-reproduction.com
                Only 10 days left of our holiday enrollment special!
                Interesting... the mare I mentioned never lost her coat and neither have any of the other mares that were brought in in previous years. And they all had nice winter coats to start w/. Maybe them being out at night helped and not being in a heated barn or blanketed in any way?
                Aside from this year where winter started in the fall, January used to be almost nicer than February/March. No mud to contend w/ and fairly decent temps. Personally I like those April/May babies.
                A Merrick N Dream Farm
                Proud Member of "Someone Special to me serves in the Military" Clique

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by AppJumpr08 View Post
                  I think the main reason my vet suggested putting her under lights is that we're trying to do ET and then have her carry her own foal... so it would be best if we have her cycling by March or April... right? I have no desire to have an early foal for the sake of having an early foal, but it seems that with the plans we have, the earlier the start the better...
                  Well, your call <smile>. But, if she's cycling in March, that means a February baby. Most mares are cycling fairly regularly by late April early May anyway. Which means a mid to late March, early April foal. If you short cycle her (which is usually done in conjunction with an ET anyway) and re-bred on the next cycle, and assuming she caught on that cycle, she could conceivably have a foal two to three weeks after the donor foal.

                  The other part of my own puzzle is that I'm *hoping* to be in Aiken, SC for the birth(s), which means the babies can (should?) be born earlier then up here in the Frozen North - I'm assuming that by June and July its awfully hot for a brand new young one in South Carolina?
                  If you're having a June or July foal, it means that you're breeding in July and August!

                  It would be so much easier if this mare wasn't turning 21 this year... I'd feel less panicky about the impending end to her reproductive career... and I still don't have a filly out of her Three lovely boys, but I still have my heart set on having a daughter as well..
                  <grin>...Well...you could have "my" kind of luck. I have in the last 15 years of breeding, whenever I've bred to an outside stallion NEVER produced a filly. Not one. If I breed to my own stallions, I can produce fillies left, right and center. But, when I selectively breed to an outside stallion in the hopes of expanding my mare base, it's a guarantee of producing a colt <rolling eyes>.

                  Good luck!

                  Kathy St.Martin
                  Equine Reproduction Short Courses
                  http://www.equine-reproduction.com
                  Only 10 days left of our holiday enrollment special!
                  Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
                  Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by amdfarm View Post
                    Interesting... the mare I mentioned never lost her coat and neither have any of the other mares that were brought in in previous years. And they all had nice winter coats to start w/. Maybe them being out at night helped and not being in a heated barn or blanketed in any way?
                    Can't answer that. But, it is a pretty common sequela of the use of phototropic stimulation. And, halter horses are pretty commonly kept under lights for exactly that reason.

                    FWIW though, I will always remember when we lived in Alaska (Fairbanks) and a neighbor purchased a TB mare from a local farm in January. The mare was kept in a heated barn and blanketed and had virtually NO winter coat. The winter temperatures in Fairbanks were usually 10 below zero and colder (remember almost NO daylight). That poor mare was turned out from her nice heated barn into a paddock with just a run in shed and the blankets didn't come with the mare! I kid you not, that mare had a full winter coat within a week! Absolutely amazing!

                    Kathy St.Martin
                    Equine Reproduction Short Courses
                    http://www.equine-reproduction.com
                    Only 10 days left of our holiday enrollment special!
                    Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
                    Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Kathy,

                      Thanks so much for your help with this - I'm so exhausted and flakey at this point (working at a restaurant during the holidays=long hours and tired feet!!) that it helps to have a real voice of reason!

                      If I could get away with not doing the lights, it would make my life much easier... as long as she starts cycling in March or April, we should be all set - she's so quiet about it that its hard to catch her (which is a whole 'nother topic for another day )

                      I'll probably end up with more colts <sigh> I've never wanted to own a stallion, but I also don't want the line to end with her - so I'm hoping that I'll get lucky!
                      Even the foal born this spring that I lost was a colt (out of a different mare)... I've just got the touch when it comes to boys I guess!
                      -Jessica

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
                        Can't answer that. But, it is a pretty common sequela of the use of phototropic stimulation. And, halter horses are pretty commonly kept under lights for exactly that reason.

                        FWIW though, I will always remember when we lived in Alaska (Fairbanks) and a neighbor purchased a TB mare from a local farm in January. The mare was kept in a heated barn and blanketed and had virtually NO winter coat. The winter temperatures in Fairbanks were usually 10 below zero and colder (remember almost NO daylight). That poor mare was turned out from her nice heated barn into a paddock with just a run in shed and the blankets didn't come with the mare! I kid you not, that mare had a full winter coat within a week! Absolutely amazing!

                        Kathy St.Martin
                        Equine Reproduction Short Courses
                        http://www.equine-reproduction.com
                        Only 10 days left of our holiday enrollment special!
                        That is amazing how quickly some can adapt. WOW! I bet she was happy after that, though probably roasting when she was in the barn!

                        You're lucky w/ fillies. I'm like the OP w/ my own stallion and giving me colts. It's like he's trying to tell me something. I've had more boys than I know what to do w/. However, he did, FINALLY this year give me a FILLY, the first crossbred filly and the last foal of the season to be born, too (in July when it was VERY hot!) What always got me is that whenever he bred outside mares they got fillies and I got colts, but this year an outside mare had a colt, first one, but a colt.

                        Good luck AppJ!! I hope you get your FILLY!
                        A Merrick N Dream Farm
                        Proud Member of "Someone Special to me serves in the Military" Clique

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No advice, just wanted to give kudos and say Bravo Zulu to amdfarm for being a Seabee wife
                          "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks, Kenike! I noticed your sig and meant to send you a PM awhile back, but forgot. 6 1/2 months and counting.......... Kudos to you, as well for having someone special serving.
                            A Merrick N Dream Farm
                            Proud Member of "Someone Special to me serves in the Military" Clique

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