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UPDATE Page 3- For Every Woman - Pelvic Organ Prolapse - As We Get Older.....the risks increase

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    Original Poster

    #41
    McGurk Thank you - it means a lot to hear you say that. It is a difficult subject and awkward too. And thank you for sharing your story. You give me hope it will be OK at some point. I'm pretty freaked out still in this moment.....and doing my Kegel's - great to hear it worked so well for you. Yes, we'll share more about clever lifting ideas.

    Comment


      #42
      McGurk I would check in with a Uro Gyn for an opinion, It is a very different discipline than OB/GYN and you may find you have options other than surgery. You have nothing to lose
      _\\]
      -- * > hoopoe
      Procrastinate NOW
      Introverted Since 1957

      Comment


        #43
        My mom's friend used to go stay with her in Fl in the winter. One day she went to the bathroom, and yelled to my mom..."Nancy! I'm growing a PENIS!" Her cervix was protruding from her vagina, and she thought she was turning into a man!
        This was a woman that was pretty sheltered...she met her husband when he was attending Seminary to become a Priest, and she was in Convent school planning on becoming a nun.

        Comment

          Original Poster

          #44
          Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
          My mom's friend used to go stay with her in Fl in the winter. One day she went to the bathroom, and yelled to my mom..."Nancy! I'm growing a PENIS!" Her cervix was protruding from her vagina, and she thought she was turning into a man!
          This was a woman that was pretty sheltered...she met her husband when he was attending Seminary to become a Priest, and she was in Convent school planning on becoming a nun.
          Your reply will definitely go down as the best one. We need humor about this topic and you delivered! I would call that pretty darn sheltered.

          Comment

            Original Poster

            #45
            UPDATE: I thought someone might benefit from my decision to seek out two experts. I saw a male and a female urogynocologist and the difference in them was remarkable. I had neighbors suggest I see two specialists to get different opinions and decide who I want to work with long term. First saw the male doc and he was slightly sarcastic, seemed to be just going through the motions and simply did a pelvic exam and suggested I get scheduled for a pessary but it would take a few weeks to get that second appointment. He said PT was a waste of time.

            Then I see the woman. Board certified but also a Fellow. She was empathetic and when I told her my gyno said "You women and your heavy lifting" she just shook her head back and forth NO. Not only was her exam more thorough including looking at a poop chart and discussing how important it is NOT to push and what a good BM looks like and the goal of daily BMs. She also did a rectal exam to confirm no hernia on the rectal side of things.

            She suggested I WALK OUT with a pessary and I did and it's great. Wear it when I'm doing barn building work and don't even feel it. Easy to remove and insert.

            She also suggested:
            1. A daily TBL of psyllium husk but start w 1 teaspoon and work up.
            2. Prescribed an estrogen cream to be inserted twice a week to help strengthen the vaginal tissue
            3. She said PT was essential and I would learn/confirm proper lifting techniques in addition to pelvic floor training. That is being scheduled.
            4. She confirmed I was doing Kegels properly
            5. Recommended I try to never lift more than 25 lbs and only when wearing the pessary
            6. That I may never need surgery if I'm careful going forward and do all the above with diligence

            I hope all this helps someone else.

            Comment


              #46
              wow what a difference in attitude exam and outcome. Good for you for being thoughtful and gaining wisdom. I hope things continue to progress well for you
              _\\]
              -- * > hoopoe
              Procrastinate NOW
              Introverted Since 1957

              Comment


                #47
                Originally posted by PaddockWood View Post
                UPDATE: I thought someone might benefit from my decision to seek out two experts. I saw a male and a female urogynocologist and the difference in them was remarkable. I had neighbors suggest I see two specialists to get different opinions and decide who I want to work with long term. First saw the male doc and he was slightly sarcastic, seemed to be just going through the motions and simply did a pelvic exam and suggested I get scheduled for a pessary but it would take a few weeks to get that second appointment. He said PT was a waste of time.

                Then I see the woman. Board certified but also a Fellow. She was empathetic and when I told her my gyno said "You women and your heavy lifting" she just shook her head back and forth NO. Not only was her exam more thorough including looking at a poop chart and discussing how important it is NOT to push and what a good BM looks like and the goal of daily BMs. She also did a rectal exam to confirm no hernia on the rectal side of things.

                She suggested I WALK OUT with a pessary and I did and it's great. Wear it when I'm doing barn building work and don't even feel it. Easy to remove and insert.

                She also suggested:
                1. A daily TBL of psyllium husk but start w 1 teaspoon and work up.
                2. Prescribed an estrogen cream to be inserted twice a week to help strengthen the vaginal tissue
                3. She said PT was essential and I would learn/confirm proper lifting techniques in addition to pelvic floor training. That is being scheduled.
                4. She confirmed I was doing Kegels properly
                5. Recommended I try to never lift more than 25 lbs and only when wearing the pessary
                6. That I may never need surgery if I'm careful going forward and do all the above with diligence

                I hope all this helps someone else.
                That all sounds great.

                Maybe you can make do with all that and if you can't, surgery is there as a next step or last resort.

                My Dr said he would not do surgery unless I promised never again to lift more than the prescribed weight, which I did.
                If I didn't heed the weight limit, he said I would be right back in trouble, so have been very careful.
                You be careful also, is that important.

                Comment


                  #48
                  Great update PaddockWood, glad you found the right person, great advice to the rest of us.
                  "He's not even a good pathological liar." Mara

                  "You're just a very desperate troll, and not even a good one. You're like middle-school troll at best. Like a goblin, not even a troll." et_fig

                  Comment


                    #49
                    I read an article that said in Europe (especially France) and in parts of Canada, that after women give birth, it is very common for their doctors to tell them to rest for a period of time (I think it was a month or so), with no exercise, to give their bodies a chance to heal, and then they see a therapist to do pelvic floor therapy.

                    Comment

                      Original Poster

                      #50
                      Originally posted by iris2006 View Post
                      I read an article that said in Europe (especially France) and in parts of Canada, that after women give birth, it is very common for their doctors to tell them to rest for a period of time (I think it was a month or so), with no exercise, to give their bodies a chance to heal, and then they see a therapist to do pelvic floor therapy.
                      Interesting. Your post reminds me the male specialist said "I make money doing surgery." (I swear he said it). The broken American medical system. I'd be curious to know if gynos in other countries warn their patients as they age about the risk of hernia.

                      Comment


                        #51
                        Originally posted by PaddockWood View Post

                        Interesting. Your post reminds me the male specialist said "I make money doing surgery." (I swear he said it). The broken American medical system. I'd be curious to know if gynos in other countries warn their patients as they age about the risk of hernia.
                        Here is a link to an article. I was kind of mad when I read it that our doctors in the US don't even talk about it and it seems so helpful. I don't know any 80 year old women who aren't wearing diapers.

                        https://www.chatelaine.com/health/la...physiotherapy/

                        Also, note in the article that they do abdominal therapy after the pelvic floor therapy.

                        And I think many of us are not doing Kegels correctly. There is a description in the article of correct way to do them.

                        Comment

                          Original Poster

                          #52
                          Originally posted by iris2006 View Post

                          Here is a link to an article. I was kind of mad when I read it that our doctors in the US don't even talk about it and it seems so helpful. I don't know any 80 year old women who aren't wearing diapers.

                          https://www.chatelaine.com/health/la...physiotherapy/

                          Also, note in the article that they do abdominal therapy after the pelvic floor therapy.

                          And I think many of us are not doing Kegels correctly. There is a description in the article of correct way to do them.
                          WOW. Thanks so much for sharing this article. WHY wouldn't doctors here discuss this and do the PT? Think of the suffering because of it. So much downside to the issue.
                          Yes, both specialists confirmed me doing the Kegels correctly and I think riders have an advantage because we've spent time figuring out how to fire one muscle and not another.
                          I'll report back after seeing the PT too.

                          Comment


                            #53
                            My Doctor brought up all different alternatives to surgery, but we decided to go on to surgery rather than keep testing to see what that mass in there was.
                            I think he was sure it was ovarian cancer, so better go in there right away, not wait thru MRI's and such.

                            Was not, some intestines had herniated in there, a rare presentation, that in the end would still have required surgery, so going there first was the right call.
                            Some times, surgery is really best, but yes, many can get by with other than surgery, every case is different.

                            Comment

                              Original Poster

                              #54
                              Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                              My Doctor brought up all different alternatives to surgery, but we decided to go on to surgery rather than keep testing to see what that mass in there was.
                              I think he was sure it was ovarian cancer, so better go in there right away, not wait thru MRI's and such.

                              Was not, some intestines had herniated in there, a rare presentation, that in the end would still have required surgery, so going there first was the right call.
                              Some times, surgery is really best, but yes, many can get by with other than surgery, every case is different.
                              Yes Bluey, you had no choice and that sounds very scary - herniated intestines. Your surgery was really a life saver.

                              Comment


                                #55
                                Well I feel better and worse, because I got the same nominal attention. I’d get told to do kegels at my exam but no follow up whatsoever, this would be in the ‘90’s when my DD was born. I had a pessary fitted in 2014 and it did a good job up until 2018. Again no comment, no follow up apart from “do kegels”. The presumption was that I’d retire and have the surgery with a lifting restriction.

                                Do not gain or lose weight without having the fit checked, do not increase your lifting no matter what changes occur in your job, and the estrogen cream was NOT cheap under my insurance, I would get samples but I was having a harder and harder time getting time off to go to the doctor at all so I didn’t use it enough and I’d go to the doctor on my vacation which didn’t always work out.

                                I developed abrasions from the pessary as I gained weight, and very light bleeding which I dismissed since I felt fine and chalked my tiredness up to the workload. Then I had a vacation, went to my PCP she had a panel done and I had anemia, and then infection(s) and a long life altering hospitalization.

                                My ob/gyn told me that my best option was surgery and no lifting, which would have meant a big fight with my employer in terms of making allowances for my restrictions, the pessary kept me at work for 4 years but the lifting workload increased to double and heavier weight, in terms of barn chores it was about the same as stacking a half dozen more grass bales a day from the ground up, and up to 3 50# sacks of grain, and I had gained about 30 pounds, far too much.

                                It worked well for 4 years at a lower workload.

                                Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                                Incredible Invisible

                                Comment

                                  Original Poster

                                  #56
                                  ReSomething I'm so sorry. This is all so valuable to know and we're all grateful for you sharing. It's so important to read your words because in my barn build (long days - hard work) I'd already become a little more aggressive with lifting because I was wearing the pessary. Your story is a reminder not to dismiss this condition and just pull up your boots. How long ago did you have surgery and are you OK now?

                                  Comment


                                    #57
                                    I haven't yet had the surgery, the illness left me very weak and it's been a moot point. I have been working with a private pay trainer and he stresses the importance of breathing as you lift, so don't hold your breath, don't bear down as small tears add up to larger problems, exhale on exertion, etc.

                                    I was OK for 4 years but did gain too much weight, then pretty much doubled my workload, not too much lifting but a lot of controlled lowering of objects off a chest high truck bed. some of them it was a controlled fall TBH. More movement in general. The weight gain made fat deposit in my abdomen and around my uterus, bladder etc. I actually had both a cystocele and rectocele and minor dropping of the actual uterus, it was tissue from the cystocele that was protruding.

                                    The pessary is sized to fit, mine had to be ordered though they gave me a lender to wear as a test. Not too sure about that, why they didn't have them available through the doctor but hey, Murica.

                                    As well use the estrogen cream faithfully if you are post menopausal. My recollection was that it was $90? for a small tube, about two weeks worth if you use a decent toothpaste sized dollop. I recall thinking it was expensive especially for perpetual use.

                                    As my pants got tighter it never ocurred to me that the pessary would become tighter as well, it was never uncomfortable, and I had a real problem with getting in to see the Dr for any kind of regular checkup, I finally got in after several months of light spotting and they told me that I had gained enough i needed to be resized. They had no real options for me apart from that, no stop working, no treatment for the erosion that was bleeding. Thinking back there was a PT or other program offered to me initially in 2014, but I had to travel to the regional medical center which is 70 miles round trip so that would have been a half a day at least, and I was taking up a new position and felt it wasn't the best timing.

                                    I had a 70 pound lifting requirement at work. Rarely had to deal with it and used whatever team lift or tools I could so it was do able, but once I had the surgery I would be restricted down to about 25 most likely or risk tearing of the sling/tissue bond, not fun.

                                    So be mindful. Some of the things that have happened to me are a result of the infections and hospitalization, the drugs they gave me, so they wouldn't apply to someone who is dealing with it timely. I would LOVE to be able to no longer have urge incontinence, if they could promise me that I would get set up for it even though I am now phobic about hospitals,
                                    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                                    Incredible Invisible

                                    Comment

                                      Original Poster

                                      #58
                                      Originally posted by ReSomething View Post
                                      I haven't yet had the surgery, the illness left me very weak and it's been a moot point. I have been working with a private pay trainer and he stresses the importance of breathing as you lift, so don't hold your breath, don't bear down as small tears add up to larger problems, exhale on exertion, etc.

                                      I was OK for 4 years but did gain too much weight, then pretty much doubled my workload, not too much lifting but a lot of controlled lowering of objects off a chest high truck bed. some of them it was a controlled fall TBH. More movement in general. The weight gain made fat deposit in my abdomen and around my uterus, bladder etc. I actually had both a cystocele and rectocele and minor dropping of the actual uterus, it was tissue from the cystocele that was protruding.

                                      The pessary is sized to fit, mine had to be ordered though they gave me a lender to wear as a test. Not too sure about that, why they didn't have them available through the doctor but hey, Murica.

                                      As well use the estrogen cream faithfully if you are post menopausal. My recollection was that it was $90? for a small tube, about two weeks worth if you use a decent toothpaste sized dollop. I recall thinking it was expensive especially for perpetual use.

                                      As my pants got tighter it never ocurred to me that the pessary would become tighter as well, it was never uncomfortable, and I had a real problem with getting in to see the Dr for any kind of regular checkup, I finally got in after several months of light spotting and they told me that I had gained enough i needed to be resized. They had no real options for me apart from that, no stop working, no treatment for the erosion that was bleeding. Thinking back there was a PT or other program offered to me initially in 2014, but I had to travel to the regional medical center which is 70 miles round trip so that would have been a half a day at least, and I was taking up a new position and felt it wasn't the best timing.

                                      I had a 70 pound lifting requirement at work. Rarely had to deal with it and used whatever team lift or tools I could so it was do able, but once I had the surgery I would be restricted down to about 25 most likely or risk tearing of the sling/tissue bond, not fun.

                                      So be mindful. Some of the things that have happened to me are a result of the infections and hospitalization, the drugs they gave me, so they wouldn't apply to someone who is dealing with it timely. I would LOVE to be able to no longer have urge incontinence, if they could promise me that I would get set up for it even though I am now phobic about hospitals,
                                      ALL such good information. And yes on that cream - the doc suggested I go to a compounding pharmacy if the cost was high at CVS and it was - $140? Compounding was $80 and using twice a week and will be diligent - thank you or that reminder.

                                      Comment


                                        #59
                                        I just wanted to chime in because of the implication that male doctors are dismissive and female doctors are understanding and nuanced. Through a variety of moves, insurance changes, scheduling issues, etc. I have had the experience of dealing with a LOT of different health care providers, all over the country, for reproductive/urinary/mammary tract issues over the 35 years I have not gotten health care from my childhood pediatrician. Men, women, doctors (OB/GYN and GPs or other specialists), CNM’s, etc. There’s a perception out there that women are “better” than men, and that midwives/other NP’s are “better.” I have detected pretty much zero correlation. One of the worst, most abrupt, most physically rough, most “I want to get this visit over with as fast as possible and move on,” was a woman. Some of the kindest, most “present”, most thorough, have been men. I have also had some really excellent woman providers and horrible men providers. I don’t make assumptions anymore about what level of care and compassion to expect based on what anatomy is under the lab coat or what letters are after the name.

                                        Comment


                                          #60
                                          Great post Toblersmom . I 100% agree with you.

                                          Comment

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