• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Sponging

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Sponging

    Just saw an article in the local paper about a "sponging" incident at Delaware Park. The poor filly--a sponge was found high up in one of her nostrils. She raced, didn't show her usual speed. A few days later, mucus started draining. Trainer thought it was a tumor, operation was done and sponge was found.

    Good lord. Not only HOW but WHY ---a SPONGE???

  • #2
    Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
    Good lord. Not only HOW but WHY ---a SPONGE???
    That is an old school way of knocking out the competition.

    As you can imagine it is somewhat hard to detect, it effectively (if that is possible to describe an evil technique) will cut the energy out from under a horse, and you can do all the blood tests you want - it doesn't show up as a doped horse. The impact to the horse can range from simply a poor effort to death.

    University of Kentucky - Spring 1998 "Working to Stop the Sponging of Thoroughbreds "

    Comment


    • #3
      As Glimmerglass said, sponging is used to knock out a favorite. It can be used by a rival owner or trainer or by someone looking to cash in at the betting window. Certainly not unheard of, especially at the lower levels where barn security is frequently not as tight. It is very dangerous to the horse and really takes a special kind of lowlife to do it, but racing has plenty of lowlifes to go around.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        That is indeed a seriously evil technique

        Comment


        • #5
          This post got me curious about the whole story on the Delaware Park incident. Apparently it has been pretty well covered by the press the past couple days, since it is the first confirmed sponging incident since 2001.

          Possible 'Sponging' At DelPark Investigated

          Is it just me, or do you think DelPark president William Rickman, Jr. is taking this rather cool and coldly? I understand not wanting to form an opinion until all the facts are straight, but to flat out say that the responsibilty falls 100% on the trainer seems a little harsh.
          Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
            but to flat out say that the responsibilty falls 100% on the trainer seems a little harsh.
            Haven't read the article yet, but I wanted to respond to your last statement. Unfortunately, it comes down to "care and control" - the trainer is first, lasts and always responsible. A groom screws up and gives an entered horse the wrong (medicated) feed tub? Trainer's fault. Owner goes and enters a horse without talking to the trainer? Trainer's fault. The list goes on....I don't know if the stewards take things into account privately, but at the end of the day, the trainer is responsible.
            Dee
            Founder of the I LOFF my worrywart TB clique!
            Official member of the "I Sing Silly Songs to My Animals!" Clique
            http://wilddiamondintherough.blogspot.ca/

            Comment


            • #7
              Oh, I completely understand most things ultimately fall into the realm of the trainer's responsibility. I just feel this is potentially a matter of security compromised, in which case some burden surely falls on the track as well.
              Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

              Comment


              • #8
                I think the blame landing on the trainer of the targeted horse and suggestion he/she is culpable due to a lack of control in preventing it can be questionable. I know we're talking about DelPark but for example in NY with a pre-race detention barn the horse is mandated to stand there and wait. I don't think D. Wayne Lukas is sitting around reading the paper next to the horse. So in such a case the burden would fall on the track and track security for potentially allowing a breech and ultimately compromising the horse's health.

                I cannot think of a sponging case in the last 5 years at a track that has a graded stakes race. Heck I can't even think of a buzzer case at one either. (The last buzzer case was at the QH track as I recall last year) So horse racing from that respect has gotten better.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SleepyFox View Post
                  really takes a special kind of lowlife to do it, but racing has plenty of lowlifes to go around.
                  I'm sorry you feel this way.

                  I've done the racing thing and showed on the highest levels......there are plenty of lowlifes out there, not just in racing.

                  There are also lots of great folks out there, especially those in the racing scene that don't tend to be as judgmental as those in other equestrian sports.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                    Oh, I completely understand most things ultimately fall into the realm of the trainer's responsibility. I just feel this is potentially a matter of security compromised, in which case some burden surely falls on the track as well.
                    How so?
                    Rickman is far from my favorite person and I don't defend him about much but the way it looks here if track management/security had truly been lax we wouldn't be hearing about this would we?

                    The guilty people would have gotten away with it and nobody would have ever known. Appears they did their job this time
                    George

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Track security cannont be everywhere at every time... they are mainly responsible for making sure that outsiders without proper ID do not enter the grounds... what goes on in a trainers barn is their responsibility...

                      This could have been done days ahead of time, so a detention barn would not have helped... could have been an inside job by a groom trying to cash a bet... or an outside person, still licensed... who knows... there is a LOT to be said about having a night watchmen in your barn!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JHUshoer20 View Post
                        How so?
                        Rickman is far from my favorite person and I don't defend him about much but the way it looks here if track management/security had truly been lax we wouldn't be hearing about this would we?

                        The guilty people would have gotten away with it and nobody would have ever known. Appears they did their job this time
                        George
                        I'm not following your logic. Did you read the article?

                        The guilty people DID get away with it, the horse was sponged and ran poorly in the race, only to have the sponge discovered several days later via surgery.

                        There is reason to believe that someone *may* have caused a distraction for security and was able to illegally enter the backside.

                        Now I'm not saying Rickman and his staff should assume full blame. But I do think he should be a little more sympathetic than saying, "Hogwash, this isn't our fault at all."

                        Yes, it could have completely been an inside job. And granted, it was only one incident. But, I could see trainers feeling a little leary of stabling at a track where horses are getting sponged while security may or may not have been compromised and the president of the track doesn't see it as anyone but the trainer's problem. He's practically implying Larry Jones should have been sitting outside his horse's stall with a shotgun.
                        Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I dont see Rickman as implying that... he is just stating the obvious, that security is not patrolling every barn, at every minute...

                          I'm sure he doesnt want to point fingers before there is proof...

                          As far as Rickman implying that LJ should be watching his horses, I agree... once again, that is what hiring a night watchman is for.

                          I dont see as many barns with nightwatchmen anymore... that was practically a standard in bigger barns yrs ago.

                          Just thought I'd add that clearly the owner of this horse does not have a clue... it doesnt matter what kind of race the horse is in... odds are odds....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            When I worked at Delaware Park, I didn't know anyone who had a night watchman. The closest anyone had was a groom sleeping in the tackroom, lol.

                            I think this hits me hard because I know how easy it can be for anyone to get on the backside at DelPark, security or not. Those horses are quite vulnerable. But from that standpoint, I guess trainers SHOULD be aware of that and take extra precautions into their own hands.
                            Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              When I started on the track 25 yrs ago a nightwatchmen was a common thing... I remember going out to the barn around 2 am and finding one asleep... he was let go the following morning... It is an added expensense, but well worth the piece of mind.

                              As far as this particular case, it was probably done by a person/persons who was already on the ground legally...

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                                When I worked at Delaware Park, I didn't know anyone who had a night watchman. The closest anyone had was a groom sleeping in the tackroom, lol.

                                I think this hits me hard because I know how easy it can be for anyone to get on the backside at DelPark, security or not. Those horses are quite vulnerable. But from that standpoint, I guess trainers SHOULD be aware of that and take extra precautions into their own hands.
                                Night watchmen are usually employed by good outfits especially if their running a "big horse". I've never heard of them at gyp tracks either. Extracting money out of a lot of those bums is like pulling blood out of a stone so don't expect it anytime soon.

                                Good news is that more barns are being built down at Fair Hill by the better trainers and other outfits are leaving the place.

                                Pennsylvania stands to benefit from this mismanagement in that we'll get more and better horses to run here and horsemen will benefit from the healthier purses we'll be offering after the new year.

                                Delaware will no longer be a factor because most of us think live racing's days are numbered there anyway. Rickman has his casino which is all he really wanted.
                                George

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I really dont consider Delaware Park a jip track... there are plenty of good outfits that stable there year after year... not quite getting your point.

                                  As far as whats going on in Pa, the slots are bringing in more money, better purses, thus more horses.... trainers will be looking for other places to stable, such as Fair Hill, so they can run horses where ever they want without being punished by track management... nothing new here.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by gallupgirl View Post
                                    I'm sorry you feel this way.

                                    I've done the racing thing and showed on the highest levels......there are plenty of lowlifes out there, not just in racing.

                                    There are also lots of great folks out there, especially those in the racing scene that don't tend to be as judgmental as those in other equestrian sports.
                                    I wasn't attacking racing, but I've been in the business long enough to know that there are plenty of lowlifes out there. I appreciate you standing up for racing, though. It's unfortunate that incidents like this DEL one really just add to racing's blackeye and only give fuel to the fire of arguments against racing.

                                    I think Larry Jones is definitely a "good outfit" and runs a pretty tight ship.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Another sponge incident - but it didn't stop her from still logging in a victory inspite of the attempts to disable her:

                                      BloodHorse 3-3-08 "Grade III Winner Golden Velvet Sponged"

                                      excerpt

                                      Golden Velvet, Darley Stable’s candidate for the March 9 Rampart Handicap (gr. II) at Gulfstream Park, and the dead-heat co-winner of the Sabin Handicap (gr. III) Jan. 6, was found after that race to have been “sponged.”

                                      The strong odor that Golden Velvet’s handlers noticed indicated that the deterioration of the sponge was well under way when the sponge was discovered. Investigators say there is no way of determining when or where the mare was sponged.
                                      Poor gal

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Yes indeed, poor gal. I wonder what the aftermath is for a deteriorating sponge?

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X