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List of owners/trainers known to sell to KB or scummy auctions?

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  • List of owners/trainers known to sell to KB or scummy auctions?

    The sad post about Harrigan as well as the Stephanie Beattie threads got me thinking.

    Is someone (DickHertz maybe?) keeping a master list of owners and trainers who have proven they sell or have sold horses directly to KB or sent them to auctions frequented by KBs?

    These people need to be publicly shamed somehow...
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

  • #2
    A much more sensible way of doing things is to ask for the names of known dealers, who sell the horses at auction where they may go to slaughter. That way, innocent or unknowing, or sneaky owners/trainers will have no excuse for sending them off to others where they may end up in a bad place -- because the dealers names will be known.

    Cannot claim innocence when the info is right in front of them.
    Turning For Home, Inc.
    Philadelphia Park Racehorse Retirement Program
    www.patha.org
    turningforhome@patha.org

    Comment


    • #3
      BarbaraL.... from my observations.. the rescues themselves have a vast knowledge of who is who... although maybe they cant *prove* the activities.

      correct?
      Last edited by SwtVixen; Jun. 30, 2010, 10:56 AM.
      Its not in someone elses backyard anymore....... your Pres brought it home.
      Racing>Business As Usual @PN

      Comment


      • #4
        Alex Brown has already done most of that footwork and has all known kill buyers listed !

        http://alexbrownracing.com/wiki/index.php/Kill_buyers
        and is keeping track of their movements/sales they frequent, countries they supply, even the routes they take to get there.

        There is extensive information concerning the Slaughter issue on the net... and active throughout the US, legislature,
        and at a grass roots level.
        http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/

        There is a huge group working for the protection of the wild horses and are campaiging for their release back into the *wild* rather than be supported in captivity. This is an extremely sad issue and surely one you will shed a tear in researching.

        If you want information, a simple search>horse slaughter< on u-tube will offer you facts! and horrible video's of the American horses plight. You wont walk away from this knowledge the same person.
        Search Yahoo: current laws on horse slaughter: this will offer up to date stats.
        http://www.animallawcoalition.com/ho...er/article/541
        charts, graphs, stats since 1989--down to monthly reports in 4 countries.

        There are several house bills sitting on legislature tables, still.......... laws are needed, and then enforcements have some teeth!
        Its not in someone elses backyard anymore....... your Pres brought it home.
        Racing>Business As Usual @PN

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Barbara L. View Post

          Cannot claim innocence when the info is right in front of them.
          Hey Barbara Luna,
          Just wondering, do you know a horse named My Boy Rocky?
          He was placed in the PTHA Turning for Home Horse Program and then with Southern NJ TB Rescue / Erin Hurley.
          He was then sold through the New Holland Auction, and AC4H found him at the dealer's lot. They kept him off the slaughter truck by buying him on April 23, 2010. Lucky horse. I posted it under the Off Course forum, in case you were claiming innocence. Just sayin'.
          -Margaret
          Last edited by FatPalomino; Jun. 23, 2010, 08:14 PM.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by Barbara L. View Post
            A much more sensible way of doing things is to ask for the names of known dealers, who sell the horses at auction where they may go to slaughter. That way, innocent or unknowing, or sneaky owners/trainers will have no excuse for sending them off to others where they may end up in a bad place -- because the dealers names will be known.

            Cannot claim innocence when the info is right in front of them.
            They can easily work around that by putting someone in the middle, such as the people claiming to be part of a 4H group.
            Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
            http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
            http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

            Comment


            • #7
              Just trying to follow - is the "AC" in AC4H Atlantic City or Atlantic County (I'm assuming it's in NJ???)

              Comment


              • #8
                Another Chance 4 Horses
                When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by FatPalomino View Post
                  Hey Barbara,
                  Just wondering, do you know a horse named My Boy Rocky?
                  He was placed in the Turning for Home Program and then with Southern NJ TB Rescue.
                  He was then sold through the New Holland Auction, and AC4H found him at the dealer's lot. They kept him off the slaughter truck by buying him on April 23, 2010. Lucky horse. I posted it under the Off Course forum, in case you were claiming innocence. Just sayin'.
                  -Margaret
                  Wow, how did this happen?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm guessing someone adopted from SJTR and then decided they didn't want the horse. Then they either took it to New Holland or gave him away to someone who did.
                    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                    My CANTER blog.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The post from FP sounds as though Barbara is involved with the dumping of the horse. ????

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What has happened in such cases............ a horse is placed, with all the contracts, and contacts in place. New owner takes horse home and finds it unacceptable........ rather than admit (anything), they *(dump)* the horse, even LIE about not having it anymore.......
                        then, when the horse turns up, the paper trail is followed, the truth comes out .....

                        Senario #1
                        At PN, a fellow sold ($500/just to keep the horse over meat price)............ a nice gelding to a *supposedly* top dressage rider a few counties over.......... the rider couldnt manage the horse......Im told a killer buyer was contacted to Just come and get it...but because it had a tat, refused... and it ended up in auction. Horse was saved by a rescue group........short of the long story...is now personally owned, loved and fulfilling some wonderful potential! Luckily the PN fellow had his paperwork in order.

                        Senario #2
                        trainer sells/gives a horse/full contracts........
                        next sale day the horse is plucked from the killer pen!
                        trainer luckily had the paperwork.

                        now, if only the pres of the hpba would come up with her paperwork.........but those horses disappear so the drugs wont be uncovered.
                        Its not in someone elses backyard anymore....... your Pres brought it home.
                        Racing>Business As Usual @PN

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
                          The post from FP sounds as though Barbara is involved with the dumping of the horse. ????
                          There is a post about this topic on the off course forum.

                          The horse was placed in the "safety" of Turning for Home. Safe, the horse was not. Sadly this isn't the first or second time something like this has happened. The first time I was told of something similar happening was 2005 As always, the people involved profit and the horses are left to suffer.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think my Wish horse is the one mentioned in Scenario #1-boy, do I LOVE this horse!!!!! I have never had such a connection with any horse ever. He was so close to being gone forever, when the O/T thought he was in good hands......

                            At any rate, a contract is only as good as the person who signs it, and there are a lot of irresponsible and/or dishonest people out there who don't give a damn about where the horse ends up or what they signed.
                            Be a part of the solution~ Adopt a thoroughbred!
                            MidAtlanticHorseRescue.org

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              jenm, instead of wanting to out people, why don't you develop a relationship with a trainer and help him/her place their horses? Much better way to help.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Although my real name, phone number, email and contact information are printed clearly at the bottom of all of my COTH comments, not one of the critics who have been blasting mine and Erin Hurley's programs have contacted me about this issue which has become so important to so many of you.

                                I make it a point not to waste my time responding to aliases, internet names, gossip and hearsay, but when someone accused me personally of dumping a horse, I decided finally that I would respond.

                                Turning For Home started its program at Philadelphia Park in 2008, so I am not sure what you were speaking of that happened in 2005.

                                Neither TFH nor I have ever been responsible for dumping a horse, and I'm not sure how one of you made that jump from asking about My Boy Rocky.

                                In April of this year, I received a call a woman representing Another Chance 4 Horses that one of our horses (meaning a horse that had been placed with TFH) was in the dealer lot up near New Holland. He was not in the kill pen.

                                I remembered the horse well--he had a serious knee fracture, his owner put him in the program, and when his turn came up off of our waiting list, we sent him to SJTR and Erin Hurley. She finished his long rehab, and found him a home as a light riding horse in December of 2008. I have no reason to believe that SJTR was irresponsible in any manner: TFH works with two non-profits , but mainly with SJTR. Adopters are assured that if a horse does not work out at any time, SJTR will take he/she back. A Right of First Refusal/No Auction Contract is signed by adopters. The adopter clearly was negligent in her own responsibilities towards Rocky.

                                I called Christy Shiedy (from AC4H) immediately after speaking to Erin, who was ready to go and pay for and pick up Rocky that day in April. Shiedy returned none of Erin's many phone calls, but called me and told me that no one was allowed on the broker lot except for AC4H, and we could not have the horse back because she did not approve of Erin's organization.

                                She also said that AC4H would take over possession of the horse the following Monday (although Erin was ready to take him back immediately), but it didn't matter, as she already had an adopter for him. The horse, BTW, was in fine shape, had good weight on him, did not appear to have been physically neglected by the adopter.

                                The former trainer's owner had also been contacted by one of the well-meaning volunteers from AC4H, then she and I both spoke at length about the safety measures we try to maintain with our program. She was apparently satisfied with our discussion, and recently, they have placed another horse with us.

                                Erin's many phone calls to the adopter were never answered, a home number had been changed and a cell phone message was never returned.

                                Shiedy and I run our organizations very differently, but I have never doubted her care of the horses, or her intentions to help with the terrible plight that our many racehorses often face. Therefore, it was very upsetting to see that there were pleas being made on the internet for obtaining funding for getting this horse a new home as recently as last week, when I was told she had found a good home for him two months ago. It is worrisome that funds needed to be raised to help an adopter to be able to adopt the horse! (Especially, when the offer was always there for us to take him back to SJTR's farm in Moorestown, NJ).

                                I hope this explains a bit about how our program works, and what the real deal was with Rocky. The other accusations about lame horses, and the "others" who have ended up at auction will have to be answered when the accusers can actually give me real names, real horses, and some more details.

                                We have over 410 horses that we have taken into the program, all from Philadelphia Park, since May of 2008. Some of you are blasting the huge number, but we are proud of what we have accomplished. Every organization has horses that can and will fall through the cracks. It is bound to happen when the numbers are huge, the economy is bad, and there are desperate people out there. It is never acceptable, however.

                                If anyone (with a real name) would like any more info about our program, please feel free to email turningforhome@patha.org; or call me. I answer the phone at any time--we do not keep 9-5 hours, how can you in this business?
                                Turning For Home, Inc.
                                Philadelphia Park Racehorse Retirement Program
                                www.patha.org
                                turningforhome@patha.org

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hi Barbara,
                                  I'm sorry you didn't see this thread, as you've logged onto the Chronicle frequently since I first posted. No one PM'd you? I got several PM's about this issue, from people who had interesting and dynamic things to be said.

                                  It's sad to see excuses made when such a nice horse came so close to be lost forever. It's tragic to hear someone speak negatively of the organization that was there when a horse like Rocky needed them the most.

                                  You know me well. In case you forgot, I worked at SRF not long before you did. My name, identity, career, location, and lots of history about me is no secret to anyone on this forum. In fact, as you'll notice, I signed my name in an above post.

                                  In the effort of transparency, I hope you'd let us know how many other horses (real name, please) do you know of that came through the Turning for Home program that were lost to follow up, or wound up an an auction/kill pen?

                                  How much does South. NJ TB Rescue get paid to take in each horse? Unless, of course, you won't release that information to the public, you can reach me at margaret.desarno@gmail.com

                                  I hope some of the people who PM'd me will list their stories- they deserve to be told. A quick google search turned up some of the "other" issues that have been raised about Turning for Home and/or Erin Hurley, dating back since 2008 and some of which COTH's own Barbara_L replied to, so Barbara, I don't think you could claim ignorance to them, although in the first thread, Barbara didn't answer the tough questions:
                                  http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...=168867&page=2

                                  http://humanityforhorses.blogspot.co...g-sent-to.html

                                  http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ht=erin+hurley
                                  http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...postcount=1951
                                  "As far as I know, Jewel (the mare in question) went back to Erin and was leased/sold/adopted back out, I don't know which.

                                  She never returned any of my calls, emails, etc. I just hope she is ok.

                                  I still have some of my older students ask about her. What a nice mare she was "
                                  Last edited by FatPalomino; Jun. 23, 2010, 08:51 PM.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Barbara L. View Post
                                    Although my real name, phone number, email and contact information are printed clearly at the bottom of all of my COTH comments, not one of the critics who have been blasting mine and Erin Hurley's programs have contacted me about this issue which has become so important to so many of you.

                                    I make it a point not to waste my time responding to aliases, internet names, gossip and hearsay, but when someone accused me personally of dumping a horse, I decided finally that I would respond.

                                    Turning For Home started its program at Philadelphia Park in 2008, so I am not sure what you were speaking of that happened in 2005.

                                    Neither TFH nor I have ever been responsible for dumping a horse, and I'm not sure how one of you made that jump from asking about My Boy Rocky.

                                    In April of this year, I received a call a woman representing Another Chance 4 Horses that one of our horses (meaning a horse that had been placed with TFH) was in the dealer lot up near New Holland. He was not in the kill pen.

                                    I remembered the horse well--he had a serious knee fracture, his owner put him in the program, and when his turn came up off of our waiting list, we sent him to SJTR and Erin Hurley. She finished his long rehab, and found him a home as a light riding horse in December of 2008. I have no reason to believe that SJTR was irresponsible in any manner: TFH works with two non-profits , but mainly with SJTR. Adopters are assured that if a horse does not work out at any time, SJTR will take he/she back. A Right of First Refusal/No Auction Contract is signed by adopters. The adopter clearly was negligent in her own responsibilities towards Rocky.

                                    I called Christy Shiedy (from AC4H) immediately after speaking to Erin, who was ready to go and pay for and pick up Rocky that day in April. Shiedy returned none of Erin's many phone calls, but called me and told me that no one was allowed on the broker lot except for AC4H, and we could not have the horse back because she did not approve of Erin's organization.

                                    She also said that AC4H would take over possession of the horse the following Monday (although Erin was ready to take him back immediately), but it didn't matter, as she already had an adopter for him. The horse, BTW, was in fine shape, had good weight on him, did not appear to have been physically neglected by the adopter.

                                    The former trainer's owner had also been contacted by one of the well-meaning volunteers from AC4H, then she and I both spoke at length about the safety measures we try to maintain with our program. She was apparently satisfied with our discussion, and recently, they have placed another horse with us.

                                    Erin's many phone calls to the adopter were never answered, a home number had been changed and a cell phone message was never returned.

                                    Shiedy and I run our organizations very differently, but I have never doubted her care of the horses, or her intentions to help with the terrible plight that our many racehorses often face. Therefore, it was very upsetting to see that there were pleas being made on the internet for obtaining funding for getting this horse a new home as recently as last week, when I was told she had found a good home for him two months ago. It is worrisome that funds needed to be raised to help an adopter to be able to adopt the horse! (Especially, when the offer was always there for us to take him back to SJTR's farm in Moorestown, NJ).

                                    I hope this explains a bit about how our program works, and what the real deal was with Rocky. The other accusations about lame horses, and the "others" who have ended up at auction will have to be answered when the accusers can actually give me real names, real horses, and some more details.

                                    We have over 410 horses that we have taken into the program, all from Philadelphia Park, since May of 2008. Some of you are blasting the huge number, but we are proud of what we have accomplished. Every organization has horses that can and will fall through the cracks. It is bound to happen when the numbers are huge, the economy is bad, and there are desperate people out there. It is never acceptable, however.

                                    If anyone (with a real name) would like any more info about our program, please feel free to email turningforhome@patha.org; or call me. I answer the phone at any time--we do not keep 9-5 hours, how can you in this business?
                                    Hate to break the news to you but...

                                    the "dealer" ac4h works with is in fact a kill buyer with a contract with a canadian slaughtgerhouse. "dealer" is just a friendlier term for him. whatever horses he lists with ac4h every week have just as much of a chance as any other horse on that FEEDLOT to be put on the truck that week. theres many, many horses he doesnt post with ac4h on a weekly basis who are used to make constant, weekly loads to canada throughout the week. If he needs horses to fill loads...he starts picking them off the list ac4h has on their site. whatever isnt sold through ac4h at the end of the week has a very high probability of going on the truck on sunday while a select few get brought back to new holland on monday..

                                    ac4h needs to clarify that this "dealer" is very much a kill buyer who ships weekly loads to canada and every horses on their listings is in just as much danger as anything else sitting in a kill pen that week

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      good job

                                      Farmgirl I just want to compliment you on your post about the "dealer" you nailed that right on the head!!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by farmgirl88 View Post
                                        ac4h needs to clarify that this "dealer" is very much a kill buyer who ships weekly loads to canada and every horses on their listings is in just as much danger as anything else sitting in a kill pen that week
                                        Great point, farmgirl.

                                        I think most anyone who has been in the racing or rescue business very long knows this, but it is a pity that some still play the role or ignorant. Barbara Luna herself just last month, here on COTH, said :

                                        "Regarding rigoletto's comments about "bad places," or however she worded it--well, with 390 horses, two adopters have turned out to be irresponsible. Both horses were recovered and readopted. I will never say we can do it all alone--without representatives from other rescues keeping an eye on dealer lots and auctions, we may have never known. But isn't that why we are all here?

                                        A few others from Pha may have ended up at auction, but it was because trainers opted to give them away and not go through Turning For Home. They were held accountable for their actions. I wonder how many we do not know about, and wish there was a way we could protect them all. Because of all the activist groups that haunt the dealers and kill buyers, the communication between dealers and rescue groups is poor, and I'd be very naive if I did not think that horses were by-passing the sales ring and heading straight to slaughter. From any track--not necessarily ours. That is another very big issue."

                                        So, who was held responsible for Rocky? Your above post, Barbara, says you never got in touch with his adopter and AC4H was never reimbursed for their expenses to bail him out.

                                        So, my real question is, when will the blaming, excuses, and slick talking end and the real work- accepting responsibility for actions, telling the truth, and answering the hard questions- begin?
                                        Last edited by FatPalomino; Jun. 24, 2010, 12:38 AM.

                                        Comment

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