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Horse workout [Equibase] question

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  • Horse workout [Equibase] question

    Coloreado (CHI) (12-Year-Old Gelding)

    Date: May 25, 2010
    Distance: Four Furlongs
    Time: 49:40 Handily
    Track Condition: Fast
    Surface: Dirt
    Rank: 15/21 - See the day's workouts


    Is there a way to confirm that this was indeed Coloreado [CHI] or a typo of some sort and who the horse worked under/for [trainer] or is now owned by?
    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014


  • #2
    According to equineline, there is a 1998 gelding Coloreado (CHI) and a 2001 horse Coloreado (ARG).

    It would have to be a lot of typos to get it wrong.
    "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."


    • #3
      According to equibase horse search: http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbH...361&registry=T

      His trainer at the time of his last race (August 2009 at YAVAPAI DOWNS) was Armando Castellanos
      And owner was David Diaz Duarte
      "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."


      • #4
        I think the owner/trainer as of the last race is known, but they're trying to see who has the horse now.

        Or, the supposed horse.

        When a horse works, do they check the tattoo or does the trainer just submit the name to the racing office? (something I should know, heh)
        "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

        My CANTER blog.


        • #5
          Usually, the clocker knows the horses by sight and/or the trainer tells the clocker who the horse is. To my knowledge, papers/tattoos are not checked in the morning works.

          I'm not sure how things work at Yavapai. Call the track, though, and they might help -- they might even tell you the trainer. Don't know why they wouldn't.
          "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."


          • #6
            And, yes, they could sneak a horse in there, but it's not wise
            "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."


            • #7
              It would be COLREADO (CHI), as =COLOREADO (ARG) has not had an import certificate issued. If the (ARG) horse is in this country, then it's not to race and he wouldn't have an official workout.


              • #8
                I'm sorry but did you actually say that the clockers know what the horses look like??

                OMG I am laughing so hard at this one. Ok now admittedly its possible at some tracks that a clocker could recognize some but lets just use Delaware, Bowie and Belmont as my examples since thats where I have come from that relates the most to this.

                At Bowie we had 1 clocker and she sortof knew some, but mostly the ones she knew were from her husbands string. And ones with obvious markings. But give her a string of bay no markings horses working by at 30 mph and no way would she get them all right.

                At Delaware we had 1-2 clockers. They didn't know many, if any.

                At Belmont in the mornings there are, count them, 5 clockers per tower. When the main track opens its a total of 8 people working (4 and 4 then)

                They knew some, but by and large it's always up to us Assistants, riders and trainers to tell them which horse is working, how far its going and then pray that they see it and time it correctly.

                That being said, Bemont clockers are the easiest of the group to "finesse" the times back where we want them to be. What I mean by this is that not always do we want folks to know how fast or slow a horse worked, so we ask to have the time 'adjusted' a bit. Hell one time I worked a horse 3 furlongs, it's a 6 yr old at the time coming back from ankle surgery and he's gonna run in the cheap claimers. Well in the winter months I weigh 150lbs easy. And this boy and I CRUISED. I rode back by the tower after and made hand gestures to see what the time was. I didn't believe what they told me. So as soon as I was off the track I called the tower on my cell. They told me what they caught me in. I hopped off the horse and handed him to the grooms and went to the tower and did some HUGE work to get them to add a couple seconds onto the time. Since apparently we went in 35 seconds!!!! UGH. Nightmare. I hardly clucked at him and while it felt smooth, it never felt quick. And my internal clock has been pretty good over the years.

                So the exact protocol for a workout getting recorded is this:

                1.) Rider tells one of the people with a radio on the track that the horse is gonna work X distance, and its name and trainer

                2.) The info gets trasnmitted to the tower and the clockers

                3.) Horse works, tower times

                4.) Rider or trainer or asst will ask tower for time after its done

                5.) Official workout times get published either 2 times per morning or once after close of training hours

                And there ya go.

                "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries


                • #9
                  At Pimlico and Laurel the clocker usually leaves 45 minutes before the track closes. Better be early or you won't get a reported work at all. Many times nobody answers the phone. Once I got ahold of him at 9am and was told that he had already turned in his works for the day so it would have to be recorded tomorrow. So no, you can't determine anything from a reported workout.
                  McDowell Racing Stables

                  Home Away From Home


                  • #10
                    I would hope you could determine the horse of a reported workout, whether the clocker recognized it or was told who it is. Pretty stupid to lie about who you are working, but I know it's done.
                    "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."


                    • #11
                      Mmmmm and why would it be stupid to lie? Ignore the right and wrong aspects for a moment. Who does it affect most if a trainer lied about which horse worked?

                      Since I know of many many recent examples since the times of Seabiscuit and Grog.

                      It would affect the bettors, sure and the owners. But its not going to upset the balance of world power.

                      Some trainers are notoriously private in their training techniques.

                      Hell I heard tale that an entire barn one month sent every horse out to work with blinkers on b/c they had a big horse with a very obvious baseball sized star. So to disguise him from the three other bay colts, they sent out 18 other horses with blinkers on every work too. Oddly though they didn't run them with the blinkers on. LOL Man the stories I have heard!!!

                      "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries


                      • Original Poster

                        Well the betting public who may or may not refer to the DRF to decide on how to wager would like to know that the info in there is somewhat accurate, wouldn't they?

                        And what if the horse in question is not even supposed to be working? Or at a track at all but at a rescue for the last year?
                        Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014



                        • #13
                          OK Angela I grabbed your bull by the horns so to speak.

                          I called over to YAVAPAI DOWNS and spoke to the stable gate and got the number for the stable manager, Wally. Wally and I had a lovely discussion, he knows of the horse, can't believe it was him that worked, but will check on it when he gets back from being on the road.

                          I'm to call him back Friday.

                          So I'll know more then.

                          Hope this helps,

                          "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries


                          • #14
                            Not much in our lives affects world power. Might as well start using any drugs we want, any training techniques/devices, etc., to get our horses to win. Who cares what the public, bettors, owners, think?

                            I know you were kidding, but sending out a horse under another horse's identity is cheating, even if it is on a small scale. I don't believe in cheating on any scale.

                            Unfortunately, racing doesn't seem to be able to do much that is transparent and honest -- at least not enough of racing.
                            "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."


                            • #15
                              How that in this year of our lord two thousand and ten, that workout times are still hand clocked boggles my mind.
                              Any run of the mill 5k or 10k race, even with thousands of runners, can have every runner timed to the fraction by use of a chip tied into the shoelaces. Not only would you get accurate times, but it could tell exact distance covered, i.e if the horse was in the middle of the track or on the rail.
                              And why stop there, use chips to time races. No need for the weird mental gymnastics of using points of call and number of lengths back to calculate the fractions for each individual horse.

                              What's the point of timed workouts anyway? If it's meant to be tool for the betting public, then it must be comforting for handicappers to know that all it takes is a trip to the tower and some sweet talking to get a couple of seconds added on. If it's for the benefit of trainers, then let them clock their own horses and share or not share that info as they see fit.


                              • #16
                                Hey at least in NY they do still require a horse to be present, name submitted etc to work. I know of stories from the smaller tracks where even thats not required. Horses were given "workouts" that hadn't left the barn.

                                You want honesty and transparency in a sport with gambling, its not gonna come easily for all levels of participants. I never said it was gonna be easy.

                                And handicappers are gamblers, so aren't they taking a knowing risk on the facts being presented to them as accurate without a whole lot of ways to check it out.

                                "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries


                                • Original Poster

                                  Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
                                  Hey at least in NY they do still require a horse to be present, name submitted etc to work.
                                  You would think though, at this small track where most probably everyone knows everyone elses' business.... that the horse did run at previously, but has now been off of for almost a year, they would wonder how/why he showed up all of a sudden to work after a year off? Esp at the age of 12?
                                  In fact isn't there a JC rule [maybe it's by track or state?] that after a certain age they can not run/race if they have not been working/racing for a certain period of time?
                                  Thanks for making contact and asking about it. I have my hands full right here at home, but this one is a real head scratcher. Or maybe I just need to use some Head and Shoulders?
                                  Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014



                                  • #18
                                    It varies by racing jurisdiction but the eldest horse to run a race I know of was 14 or 15.

                                    As horses get older lay offs are more common and no I don't think anyone would blink at a 12 yr old coming back into training after a year off. Here's why...

                                    We, old boss and barn I worked for, had a fantastic turf horse, Fox's Flyjinski, he LOVED colonial. So he would be legged up in March, Gallop and tighten up in April-late May. Run in June-July, go on vacation in August.

                                    He ran his last race at age 13 I think.

                                    The other thing to recall is that when a clocker enters a horse's name for the time, he doesn't see his age, pedigree etc. He types the name given and the time he wrote down. Period. As many horses as there are at tracks, even small ones, it would take a small bit of recognition and coincidence to recall a fact like his age etc.

                                    Its just not that surprising for someone to not have thought about it.

                                    Having said that, I can't wait to talk to Wally tomorrow. Especially after reading the thread at ABR.

                                    My money is on the idea that Jim got hornswaggled. $700 for a horse with 113 starts.... wow. Taken on a leash is my gut. Now I hope I am wrong but damn.


                                    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries


                                    • #19
                                      Can't wait to see what you come up with. I had absolutely nothing with him buying the horse in the first place (as in donations) but this has piqued my curiosity.


                                      • Original Poster

                                        Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post

                                        The other thing to recall is that when a clocker enters a horse's name for the time, he doesn't see his age, pedigree etc. He types the name given and the time he wrote down. Period. As many horses as there are at tracks, even small ones, it would take a small bit of recognition and coincidence to recall a fact like his age etc.
                                        Not what I meant, I just thought it odd that if someone was going to tell the clocker a name [that is not the horses name] why would they pick one of a horse who was older and had not been on the track for a year... just seems like it would make more sense to use a name they're familiar with. But maybe the person who told them that name to the clocker was familiar with 'Coloreado'?
                                        Or maybe it was Coloreado?

                                        It must be a NY state thing re: age and time off track after which they can not race again. Tomorrow is another day and maybe I'll have time to dig that one up, if anyone is interested in it?
                                        Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014