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Business As Usual

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  • (OT)So we can track a case of salmonella to the exact cow and stall but we can't track an export of horse meat? Really? Doesn't Canada have the US equivalent of the USDA? Aren't these horses inspected for consumption? In all the years (however many) no related illnesses to consuming horse meat have been reported? I find that both odd and appealing. If we can't stop the slaughter can't we get better rules enforced on documentation for it? Aren't there regular inspections of these places? What is in the inspection process?

    Why not approach the trainers and give them horse theft protection if they can provide documentation for the horses they sell/give away. If I was the owner of said 5 figure horse I would want to know where it went. If you can't come up with a bill of sale then I would think you just literally stole my horse. Its not a big fine but it's a legal action. I bet a few of them would be more than happy to hand over at least a bill of sale with coggins numbers on them. Coggins numbers are useless most days but some days they have tat #s on them to correlate to horses right?
    Adoring fan of A Fine Romance
    Originally Posted by alicen:
    What serious breeder would think that a horse at that performance level is push button? Even so, that's still a lot of buttons to push.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by leilatigress View Post
      (OT)So we can track a case of salmonella to the exact cow and stall but we can't track an export of horse meat? Really? Doesn't Canada have the US equivalent of the USDA? Aren't these horses inspected for consumption? In all the years (however many) no related illnesses to consuming horse meat have been reported? I find that both odd and appealing. If we can't stop the slaughter can't we get better rules enforced on documentation for it? Aren't there regular inspections of these places? What is in the inspection process?
      When I called a CFIA vet a few years ago, he ASSURED me the horses were inspected before and after slaughter. I asked how they could tell that a TB coming directly from NH on a Tuesday was free of drugs, etc. to be slaughtered the same day or next day. No convincing answer. He also told me the meat itself was inspected. Well, I commented there must be a lot of waste then, since most of the TBs would have had steroids, bute and other chemicals in their system. Of course, no real answer! He also ASSURED me that the meat was again inspected at destination! Yeah, sure, because they would keep buying that kind of meat???

      Did the reporter mean "appalling" instead of "appealing"?

      Starting next month, Canada will follow the rules required by the EU ie the QT and 6 months feedlot requirements, but I am sure there are so many loopholes, that nothing will change here either. Business as usual. I think the only way we can curb the slaughter (apart from passing the law prohibiting the border crossing for US horses and Canada will not have enough to sustain the 5 s/h) is to again campaign in Europe and show the truth about the condition of the horses and "the quality" of the imported meat. Although, again this year, at least in French supermarkets, the meat was coming from other EU countries and mostly Brazil and Argentina. Did not see one package stating Origin: Canada.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by On the Farm View Post
        Again, where did this figure come from? Beverly Strauss says 10,000, now you use a figure pulled from thin air that says 30,000. Which is it? My point is that no one knows for sure and I despise people who make up numbers to suit their agenda. When I question "facts" such as these, no one has been able to give me a legitimate answer, yours included.
        Why does it matter? IMHO ONE is too many. You are quibbling over 10K vs 30K-- both of which are overwhelmingly horrible, horrible numbers to contemplate.

        And suit WHAT agenda? Anti-slaughter? I mean, if you are quibbling over huge numbers like these, what is the point? We aren't talking about a few- we are talking about staggeringly high numbers- with a total of 90K, possibly, in a year-- all in.

        And the question still stands- what is PN doing to enforce their policy? Nothing?
        When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
        www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
        http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • Not trying to hijack ...

          ... but I just today found out that my hunt horse was Penn National's Horse of the Year in 1998 and wondered if anyone remembers him: Emperor Tigere. Nearly black with a small white star, trained at that time by Scott Lake. If anyone remembers him at all, I'd be happy to hear what you knew of him back in the day--please PM!

          Back to scheduled programming, and sorry for the aside.

          Comment


          • Thnks Dick! I've replied. Not related to Little Hound but own a few!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ASB Stars View Post
              Why does it matter? IMHO ONE is too many. You are quibbling over 10K vs 30K-- both of which are overwhelmingly horrible, horrible numbers to contemplate.

              And suit WHAT agenda? Anti-slaughter? I mean, if you are quibbling over huge numbers like these, what is the point? We aren't talking about a few- we are talking about staggeringly high numbers- with a total of 90K, possibly, in a year-- all in.

              And the question still stands- what is PN doing to enforce their policy? Nothing?
              If for no other reason, we need to at least learn how to best allocate our resources when providing for horses after their racing careers (or whatever career they may have had) are finished. If we don't have an accurate number except for these wild estimates that are continually bantered about, then how do we determine where the money needs to go? Are thoroughbreds really the problem in slaughter, or are other breeds, or non-breed horses the greater issue?

              My intention was not to show up anyone personally here, my questions are the same that I've asked alot of different people who throw out wild numbers. I once read a statement from a person who claimed that 200,000 tbs went to slaughter each year. As always, I asked where that figure came from and further stated that if as many tbs went to slaughter as was claimed, then the breed would have disappeared decades ago. I'm still waiting on that answer too.

              Getting back to funding, remember to that the easy way to raise funds revolves around drama. I remember not too many years ago where a rescue was crying poverty, but always found the funds to pay for tattoo research just in case they could some how connect, no matter how distant, a wealthy or prominent owner/breeder to an unfortunate horse. It's all about the funds.

              Lastly, to address another posters comment, if confrontations are taking place at Penn, well GOOD. I've always stated that's where it needs to happen not here. As I've also stated, I left Penn last year and the only reason I'd ever want to go back is to get some personal issues sorted out with a former employee.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                Boots are Walkin Retired to New Vocations

                This poster is proud to report that Boots are Walkin has been retired by Stephanie Beattie to New Vocations. In addition, Ms. Beattie made a donation of $2,500 and kindly asked for some good PR to go with the donation. So here it is, we have at least one properly retired horse by Stephanie Beattie.

                Give credit where credit is due.

                Comment


                • Glad to hear that at least one horse made it safely to a good rescue. But the donation to ask for good PR for herself... because ONE safe horse will make everyone forget all the others??? I don't think so! And without the pressure and the questions, you may wonder where that horse would have ended up as well. Sorry, one horse does not make us believers that ALL were safely given away, rehomed, retired...

                  It will take a lot more names, confirmations and probably donations!!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DickHertz View Post
                    This poster is proud to report that Boots are Walkin has been retired by Stephanie Beattie to New Vocations. In addition, Ms. Beattie made a donation of $2,500 and kindly asked for some good PR to go with the donation. So here it is, we have at least one properly retired horse by Stephanie Beattie.

                    Give credit where credit is due.
                    Didn't just suggest this very thing to John Sunwacker a page back???? My My someone can read the words...

                    Comment


                    • So let me get this straight, Steph retires a horse and makes a financial contribution and still gets criticized? Do I even have to elaborate further as to how unreasonable you people are. The woman could donate her life savings to a horse retirement and you guys would say that she should have acquired a second job to donate more. What must this poor woman do? I would imagine that after she and Donny Brown give you guys the information about the safe placement of the horses in question, you will all finally give a little bit of credit.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by John Sunwack View Post
                        So let me get this straight, Steph retires a horse and makes a financial contribution and still gets criticized? Do I even have to elaborate further as to how unreasonable you people are. The woman could donate her life savings to a horse retirement and you guys would say that she should have acquired a second job to donate more. What must this poor woman do? I would imagine that after she and Donny Brown give you guys the information about the safe placement of the horses in question, you will all finally give a little bit of credit.
                        We'll be giving a course on reading for comprehension soon, but for the moment, Mr. Whacker (or Ms. ) take a BIG look at Dick's post. He is trying to raise this particular action of "Steph's" up, and laud it. You know, say she did the right thing.

                        Now, for you, let's try a new "doing the right thing"...tell us where all of the horses who "Steph" has retired from the track are. Or, at the very least, provide real information as to where she sent them, initially. Like, you know, bills of sale, etc. Something real. Real here to be defined as confirming what actually happened.

                        Then, and only then, can we laud your heroine for the balance of her actions.

                        Thankyouverymuch....
                        When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                        www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                        http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

                        Comment


                        • Why do people think the world revolves around Dick Hertz? The guy reports common knowledge and flip flops predictions when he's proven wrong. Not impressed by his mediocre reporting.
                          Last edited by John Sunwack; Jun. 28, 2010, 09:25 PM.

                          Comment


                          • 'scuse me DickHertz and John Sunwack. I initerrupt your discourse to ask...

                            When did this happen to Boots Are Walkin? Just wondering if it was after this thread was up and rolling.

                            Sorry: Trained as an epidemiologist in my youth and used to asking questions like this.
                            They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                            Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                            Comment


                            • Frugal Annie, have you been asleep for the last two weeks?

                              Comment


                              • I have no doubt that Boots are walking has been retired, but yes, I am very skeptical that all of a sudden, SB seems to know there are rescues and that she has the heart to donate (for some good PR no doubt). Strange how this particular horse was mentioned (post 1445) on being lame. I guess this particular horse was being watched and better have a good answer to his whereabouts. Now other names mentioned on this thread? Major Mecke? Contrary? Regardlessly? Where are they?

                                Comment


                                • Careful there John tread lightly, the ice is thin.

                                  No one is crying foul over the horse, and it seems the voluntery retirement was recent like nano seconds ago.

                                  So Frugalannie good question motion to continue.

                                  John motion denied take your seat at the rear of the bus.

                                  Everyone wishes to see "SB" continue this course, a one time action does not make for further reform.
                                  Nor do we want to insult her rather timely deed.

                                  Making person insults about persons personal hygene is grounds for ejection seat.
                                  Lets have a clean fight....Round continues.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by John Sunwack View Post
                                    Why do people think the world revolves around Dick Hertz? The guy reports common knowledge and flip flops predictions when he's proven wrong. Not impressed by his mediocre reporting.
                                    To many of us, Dick Hertz is a hero. I think his reporting has been spot-on.

                                    Comment


                                    • It Gonna Get Bumpy

                                      Dickie when this is all over we should have a COTH reunion and do lunch...heck maybe even buy you a new watch

                                      Might be trolling round Penn tomorrow shopping

                                      Comment


                                      • Judy, I may need a translator to read your most recent post. Person persons personal person? To call into play another poster, WHA WHA WHAT? Do a little proof reading, please. And for the record the correct spelling is hygiene. And now back to our regularly scheduled program. This is the part of our show where all of you saintly crusaders fail to prove again that Steph has sent but one horse to slaughter in the last year . But don't worry, if you miss the show, you can catch the same old pointless replay every day

                                        Comment


                                        • Polite debate

                                          I know Ive addressed the issue of polite debate a few times before. However, more than glad to address it again and remind folks...especially vandian and you, john sunwack -- that this is an open forum of debate, a place to exchange ideas, and state facts as they are known.

                                          Personal attacks have no place here..... and take away from the discussions meant to produce good results, and hopefully solutions to the problems that plague Penn National horses and horsemen.

                                          I know that Ive also itemized the huge list of concerns; and will compile that list again ... if nothing else so that no issue get buried and forgotton.

                                          Most of all, there IS an anti-slaughter policy written and presented to the HBPA detailing the guidelines for adherence and consequence for not conforming. There is a concensus that it reads applicable to ALL horsemen holding license at Penn National.

                                          It was not a deliberate action to single out one particular person ... just so happens that those horses found in killer pens and rescued were traced to a certain trainer.
                                          --- the question is.....why has management not taken appropriate action? That needs to be addressed.

                                          There is still the issue of horse safety during day training hours..... a vet, a horse ambulance.
                                          Stall allocation? methods, and who does/doesnt get assigned? and why?

                                          Maybe if each of us picks up the ball and adds as they know of an issue -- to make a complete list of current *problems* ..
                                          ... we here can work clearly on ideas for each ones solutions.

                                          I still stand that NO horse from Penn National should ever be unaccounted for (bill of sale)... and NO horse should EVER be found in a kill pen, a kill buyers barn, or on a truck headed over any border for slaughter. There was a race fund as of 2004.
                                          And those folks who have(as policy was in force back in 2008)and still send.......should face the consequences of the Penn National policy regardless.
                                          ps: anyone know? or can find a verified first-enacted date for the policy?
                                          Suffolk enforces theirs; swiftly and clearly.
                                          Last edited by SwtVixen; Jun. 29, 2010, 06:26 AM.
                                          Its not in someone elses backyard anymore....... your Pres brought it home.
                                          Racing>Business As Usual @PN

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