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  • Originally posted by SleepyFox View Post



    I find that dichotomy odd, too, OnTheFarm. I see an awful lot of people on COTH talking about how Poopsiekins NEEDS his regular Legend injections so that he can continue to jump around a course comfortably. And that's just fine with everyone - as long as Poopsiekins is a show horse. But, if Poopsiekins is a racehorse, well then he'd better never be medicated.

    There is a big difference between the responsible use of medication - that's just good horsemanship - and the abuse of medication. I don't know why people don't see that difference when it comes to racing.

    I'd never argue with treating a horse appropriately for any malady. The question becomes, should a horse with a malady (whatever it is) be asked for maximum performance, particularly if it can't feel that it is compromised in some way.

    Poopsiekins (a great name, BTW) just might be an old trouper, teaching a kid the ropes on a course a quarter the size of what he did in his prime. He'll probably know how to protect himself and use the minimum amount of energy. And even if this description doesn't fit, the fact remains that the H/J discipline is changing its drug policies to come closer to the FEI standard of zero tolerance. The Poopsiekins of the world may find themselves retiring much sooner than they used to.

    One of the most admirable things about a race horse is it's absolute focus and committment on running. We know they'll run through pain, even try to go on through catastrophic injuries, and we laud their heart. It's up to us to prevent as many injuries to these athletes as possible. Appropriate medication and therapy shouldn't be an issue: racing a horse with an injury and using meds and therapies to disguise it risks that horse, the others in the race and the jockeys.
    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DickHertz
      Brightskyfarm, what are you referring to about killing them and dumping into pit?
      You really don't know?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DickHertz
        yes, but why do I have to be the only one to say what happens?
        To anyone that would like to know, horses have been shipped from ECR to various racetracks specifically to be euthanized. This saves MG the $185 it costs to have them pickd up at the farm. This was confirmed by the state vet.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BeverlyAStrauss View Post
          No way to know but I wouldnt be surprised if these are very compromised horses that are being dumped and quickly. No whipping up a frenzy here, just facts.
          I guess you could say that "no way to know" is factual. The rest is just opinion.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by frugalannie View Post
            I'd never argue with treating a horse appropriately for any malady. The question becomes, should a horse with a malady (whatever it is) be asked for maximum performance, particularly if it can't feel that it is compromised in some way.

            Poopsiekins (a great name, BTW) just might be an old trouper, teaching a kid the ropes on a course a quarter the size of what he did in his prime. He'll probably know how to protect himself and use the minimum amount of energy. And even if this description doesn't fit, the fact remains that the H/J discipline is changing its drug policies to come closer to the FEI standard of zero tolerance. The Poopsiekins of the world may find themselves retiring much sooner than they used to.

            One of the most admirable things about a race horse is it's absolute focus and committment on running. We know they'll run through pain, even try to go on through catastrophic injuries, and we laud their heart. It's up to us to prevent as many injuries to these athletes as possible. Appropriate medication and therapy shouldn't be an issue: racing a horse with an injury and using meds and therapies to disguise it risks that horse, the others in the race and the jockeys.
            I agree with your opnion on disguising a serious injury and medication rules are geared for that. What concerns me is this notion of no medications allowed at all, even for routine and legitimate care.

            A real life example would be a filly I took in during my time at Penn. She shipped in from Delaware with a bad attitude and the report that she was "weak behind." That was an understatement as on her first day with me under tack, she couldn't even jog a half mile. I saw some things in her way of going that troubled me, so we did a lameness exam with our vet, plotted a course of action in both training AND suitable medications (EPM, regumate, and a course of azium.) We took our time and after a month this filly was in fine form and a much happier horse. Unfortunately I never got to run her myself as I moved back home, BUT she won two in a row after my departure. I make no apologies to ANYONE here over the job I did with her.

            Comment


            • [QUOTE=lily04;4666705]To anyone that would like to know, horses have been shipped from ECR to various racetracks specifically to be euthanized. This saves MG the $185 it costs to have them pickd up at the farm. This was confirmed by the state vet.[/QUOTE
              it all depends on the track! i know first hand that at philadelphia park if your horse is breaks down and is put down on the track or immediately afterwards- the track will pay the disposal cost, but if the horse dies or is euthanized days later, or for anything not race related- the owner is charged the disposal fee! so gill wouldnt have taken them to philly as he would be charged the disposal fee for every horse put down outside of injury on the track!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by On the Farm View Post
                I guess you could say that "no way to know" is factual. The rest is just opinion.
                And the facts are that a group of TBs were tagged and shuffled off. Maybe these are the same group that DD sold to Canada, maybe not. No one will know.
                Be a part of the solution~ Adopt a thoroughbred!
                MidAtlanticHorseRescue.org

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BeverlyAStrauss
                  Maybe the "20 or so" that DD sold to Canada were the same bunch that showed up at NH, maybe not....again the NH horses were not accessible for any ID.....
                  Either way Bev, 20,40, Canada, New Holland, Gill is a POS. Any other farms or tracks in the area missing 20 horses all at once ?
                  Snowflakes become an avalanche.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lily04 View Post
                    To anyone that would like to know, horses have been shipped from ECR to various racetracks specifically to be euthanized. This saves MG the $185 it costs to have them pickd up at the farm. This was confirmed by the state vet.
                    sorry, no lilyo4,
                    find that action a bit doubtful.... no facts to
                    suspect any of that is true.
                    Last edited by brightskyfarm; Dec. 15, 2010, 04:05 PM.
                    IN GOD WE TRUST
                    OTTB's ready to show/event/jumpers. Track ponies for perfect trail partners.
                    http://www.horseville.com/php/search...=1&ssid=057680

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by brightskyfarm View Post
                      sorry, no lilyo4, i had no knowledge of such a thing....
                      and find that action a bit doubtful.... no facts to
                      suspect any of that is true.
                      Confirmed by the state vet.

                      Comment


                      • I don't think anyone's advocating that you shouldn't use any kind of maintenance meds ever, just that they should be withheld a minimum of 3-4 days prior to racing. Longer with something like shockwave therapy. A horse can't take care of him/herself if they can't feel any pain or if the pain is disguised. They'll run through a lot with just adrenaline (along with a jockey whipping them) alone, but hopefully, if they're not treated with anything they'll pull themselves up, so to speak, so that they end up injured, but not catastrophically.
                        In an age when scientists are creating artificial intelligence, too many of our educational institutions seem to be creating artificial stupidity.—Thomas Sowell, Is Thinking Obsolete?

                        Comment


                        • I am just wondering what will happen with in July 2010 (beginning or end can't remember), Canada will implement the 6 month quarantine required by the EU. They won't be able to ship them directly to Canada. Maybe they'll try to get their dirty work done quickly before that... but what will happen then?

                          I am so sick of knowing that Canada is the dumping grounds for all these poor horses and any protest, comment, email to the powers that be here fall on deaf ears. I am hoping many Europeans get sick over the meat containing all these meds...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by FalseImpression View Post
                            I am hoping many Europeans get sick over the meat containing all these meds...
                            Or their cats.... & dogs.... my family & their beloved pets excluded of course.
                            "Dressage" is just a fancy word for flatwork

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DickHertz
                              In about 3 weeks, you'll take back ever calling Cole Norman a good horseman.
                              Dick, you've been trying to crucify Cole Norman because of his criminal past - for which he's served his time. And, I stand by the fact that has nothing to do with his ability as a horseman.

                              I also stand by my opinion that if you have a problem with people at Penn, then there are more appropriate venues than anonymously posting on an Internet forum. Plus, the majority of the attack has been rooted in rumor without supporting proof. I'm not saying the rumors aren't true, but supporting factual evidence would be good.

                              And, no, I haven't commented on your backhanded praise of Penn, since it's been just that - backhanded.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by minnie View Post
                                I don't think anyone's advocating that you shouldn't use any kind of maintenance meds ever, just that they should be withheld a minimum of 3-4 days prior to racing. Longer with something like shockwave therapy. A horse can't take care of him/herself if they can't feel any pain or if the pain is disguised. They'll run through a lot with just adrenaline (along with a jockey whipping them) alone, but hopefully, if they're not treated with anything they'll pull themselves up, so to speak, so that they end up injured, but not catastrophically.
                                The thing is, there isn't any medication you can legally give close enough to raceday that will mask pain to the point a sore horse will think he's sound.

                                Comment


                                • Question from someone ignorant of racing procedures-

                                  Do they test the blood of the horses who place in the top 3 or so of all races and for all the horses that get vanned off or break down during a race? Necropsies for every horse that breaks down?

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by FalseImpression View Post
                                    I am just wondering what will happen with in July 2010 (beginning or end can't remember), Canada will implement the 6 month quarantine required by the EU. They won't be able to ship them directly to Canada. Maybe they'll try to get their dirty work done quickly before that... but what will happen then?
                                    My understanding is that is *only* for horses slated for human consumption. It won't affect the horses being slaughtered for animal food, and that makes up the majority of horses slaughtered, I believe... so... I'm not sure it will make much of a difference at all to the numbers that cross the border.
                                    -Jessica

                                    Comment


                                    • [QUOTE=jetsmom;4667439]Question from someone ignorant of racing procedures-

                                      Do they test the blood of the horses who place in the top 3 or so of all races

                                      some trainers always request a special for every horse claimed.
                                      Last edited by brightskyfarm; Dec. 15, 2010, 04:06 PM.
                                      IN GOD WE TRUST
                                      OTTB's ready to show/event/jumpers. Track ponies for perfect trail partners.
                                      http://www.horseville.com/php/search...=1&ssid=057680

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                                        Question from someone ignorant of racing procedures-

                                        Do they test the blood of the horses who place in the top 3 or so of all races and for all the horses that get vanned off or break down during a race? Necropsies for every horse that breaks down?
                                        In California, there are necropsies for every horse that dies on the track (not just from breakdowns in the afternoon).

                                        http://www.chrb.ca.gov/annual_report...rtemAnnual.pdf

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by SleepyFox View Post
                                          Dick, you've been trying to crucify Cole Norman because of his criminal past - for which he's served his time. And, I stand by the fact that has nothing to do with his ability as a horseman.
                                          I posted some time ago about a race mare I bought from Flint Stites. She was in horrible condition and he had been racing her on an avulsion fracture of the front pastern. I got jumped by people on this form (including Dick) about what a great guy Stites is (I still think the guy's a douche bag).

                                          I mention that because I have also come across horses coming out of Cole Norman's barn. And, they were in FAR better condition than than the one from Stites. I realize that Norman is a mess (and a felon), but it's interesting to me the different perception of both of these guys and that the people on this forum defend one and crucify the other.

                                          Comment

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