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No mention or updates on Headache or Quarter Moon

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  • No mention or updates on Headache or Quarter Moon

    Who raced on Saturday at HOL and were vanned off.

    I enjoyed the weekend racing quite a bit, but it has been marred by no follow up of these horses, actually, no mention in general.

    NO mention of Headache or Quarter Moon in the racing press, and here it is Monday. I mean, it was Sat races not Tuesday at some out of the way track.


    Headache ran 45 races in his life, some G2s and G3's in Europe

    Quarter Moon ran 26 races including the G1 Clement L. Hirsch and the Ralph Hines


    But I guess they don't deserve mention or even follow up by anyone in our industry.


    No mention at HOL Park page. Bloodhorse. Brisnet. etc. (not only no updates, but absolutely NO MENTION that 2 horses broke down in the same race on a Saturday)

    Only "mention" is in equibase charts, that Headache "broke down in upper stretch" and that Quarter Moon was "vanned off."


    Still only info I have is on TVG forum that Headache was put down, but nothing official, so I still don't know--- and still no word on Quarter Moon.

    Stute and Barnes, racing media, and HOL Park, how about some updates on the horses? Some of us racing fans actually like and wager on horses and we like to know what happens to them when they break down, esp. if we had a wager on them and believed in their abilities

    -------------
    BTW, does anyone know of anyone keeping a database on these things that we can refer to? I can't seem to find any that are updated.

  • #2
    i know that the Jockey Club has an Equine Injury Database but i don't know if the general public is allowed to access it

    Comment


    • #3
      thanks WinterTriangle!!!!
      I have sat and watched many nights and wondered for DAYS what happened to the horses!!!!! I have noted several Malibu Moons (only because i have 3) that have been pulled up (or fallen- I cringe every time!!!!) and then they just fall of the face of the earth..... they give reports on the jocks why not the horses????

      with all the hoopla about Barbaro and others why do horses that go down in not so important races not get any mention?? they pan those cameras pretty fast off of them.....

      sure hope Quarter Moon is Ok (and that Headache is really alive)!!!!
      owner and friend of members of the Limping And Majestic Equine Society.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        I am 100% pro-racing and I love the sport. I realize horses break down.

        I just feel that some follow-up blurb should be SOP.

        I asked around about databases, and apparently there was one done by someone who was anti racing.

        Since I am not anti racing perhaps I should start a site --- it would not be to point fingers----I just feel that horses who work racing and give their all deserve some small mention, like a "memorial wall" or something. It's more of an act of graciousness to do this, IMHO. I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with it, do you?

        Anyway, I guess I'll have to phone the racing secretary and see if they can find out from the barns what happened to these 2 very nice horses.

        If anyone hears anything, let me know.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think that to supply such a site would only give ammunition to the "anti's". We who enjoy TB horses, and racing, understand that injuries and deaths happen in pursuit of excellence during the practice of racing. We understand that horses who "break down" or are "vanned off" in the race results write up ARE in peril. And though we may feel an attraction or an affection for those horses, they are not OUR horses, and there are times that these tragedies must be private, between the horses involved, the trainers, the owners, and the attending veterinarians. If someone chooses to make their feelings about what has happened to their horse public, fair enough, they can do that. In some cases, owners, trainers and associated humans do not care as much as YOU may that this has happened, and it is simply the end of one particular horse and it's account with trainer. In many other cases, it is a personal tragedy that affects those who were truly close to the horse, with substantial grief, and feeling like ones' own guts have been torn out with the loss. People who feel like this may choose to NOT share these feelings of grief and loss with strangers.

          Horses who are injured, broke down, vanned off will be evaluated at the barn or works yard, if they make the journey that far successfully. At that point, the opinions of the vet, and the attitudes of the owner or trainer will determine his fate. Some will attempt to save a horse, for some reason that they have, if they feel it may be possible, and if the horse may have a value or use for some other discipline or lifestyle, as breeding stock, as a riding mount or pet for the owners or breeders, or possibly with hope that the horse may return to race again. Others will make the decision to put the horse down at that stage. There may be little difference between the injuries, but different decisions made on the basis of what is important to the humans involved. If there are no options to attempt to save, this makes these decisions easier. The general public may hold different opinions about what is decided here in this situation, but it is not their place to make these decisions. Nor their right to voice their opinions about what was decided. This is a private moment, and the domain of those who have the power over this horse. Some may be grieving and in huge emotional turmoil, some may not be. Either way, it is nobody else's business.
          www.cordovafarm.weebly.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by NancyM View Post
            I think that to supply such a site would only give ammunition to the "anti's". We who enjoy TB horses, and racing, understand that injuries and deaths happen in pursuit of excellence during the practice of racing. We understand that horses who "break down" or are "vanned off" in the race results write up ARE in peril. And though we may feel an attraction or an affection for those horses, they are not OUR horses, and there are times that these tragedies must be private, between the horses involved, the trainers, the owners, and the attending veterinarians. If someone chooses to make their feelings about what has happened to their horse public, fair enough, they can do that. In some cases, owners, trainers and associated humans do not care as much as YOU may that this has happened, and it is simply the end of one particular horse and it's account with trainer. In many other cases, it is a personal tragedy that affects those who were truly close to the horse, with substantial grief, and feeling like ones' own guts have been torn out with the loss. People who feel like this may choose to NOT share these feelings of grief and loss with strangers.

            Horses who are injured, broke down, vanned off will be evaluated at the barn or works yard, if they make the journey that far successfully. At that point, the opinions of the vet, and the attitudes of the owner or trainer will determine his fate. Some will attempt to save a horse, for some reason that they have, if they feel it may be possible, and if the horse may have a value or use for some other discipline or lifestyle, as breeding stock, as a riding mount or pet for the owners or breeders, or possibly with hope that the horse may return to race again. Others will make the decision to put the horse down at that stage. There may be little difference between the injuries, but different decisions made on the basis of what is important to the humans involved. If there are no options to attempt to save, this makes these decisions easier. The general public may hold different opinions about what is decided here in this situation, but it is not their place to make these decisions. Nor their right to voice their opinions about what was decided. This is a private moment, and the domain of those who have the power over this horse. Some may be grieving and in huge emotional turmoil, some may not be. Either way, it is nobody else's business.
            My sentiments exactly.
            www.laurienberenson.com

            Comment


            • #7
              When looking for updates on horses...

              ...here's a great spot to try:

              the Whatever Happened To forum on Thoroughbred Champions. There's even a whole thread devoted to "Waiting for news on" when a horse has pulled up / gone down / had a mishap during a race and you're left wondering how things turned out.

              I don't see any updates on Headache or Quarter Moon, but if you ask there I bet someone will answer.

              Comment


              • #8
                Great post Nancy M!

                Here's the thing--if you were at a show and a horse landed awkwardly and is clearly three legged lame and hobbles off the course, do you have the right to go to that trainer's barn and demand to know the details?

                What if you are at a boarding facility and one of the show horses that you've seen casually now is clearly dead lame? I'm assuming this horse is in a trainer's barn and is being appropriately treated. Do you have the right to demand of the owner all of the details of his injury, the treatment and his prognosis?

                Clearly horses like Eight Belles and Barbaro are in a different category. They had fans and brought wealth and fame to their owners. People were invested in them and that is part of the tradeoff that the owners made. But what about a bread and butter type horse the equivalent of what a COTHer might own? By entering a show where you happened to be, did the owner and trainer give up their right to privacy over what could be a tragedy for them? Are they obligated to deal with you and your questions even if they regard it as intrusive and it may be very painful for them?

                Comment


                • #9
                  The difference between the show horse and a race horse is betting.

                  Racing a horse and allowing the public to bet on those races puts the horse a bit more into the public domain.

                  If a particular trainer has more horses than average that break down during races I would think that information would be a factor to a savy bettor.

                  I could also see where having the information available as to the extent of the injury could affect breeders choices for stallions & mare lines.
                  If the get of particular stallion seem to break down more frequently then a breeder may not breed to that horse or a trainer may not buy or recommend his client buy a horse from those line.
                  Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    when you enter a horse in a "public" race you do lay yourself on the line- totally!! Brisnet etc... keep records of EVERYTHING You do, the horses are drug tested (and i think these results should be more public) and everyday folks are paying hard earned money to bet on your horses- so YES you should be willing to tell them what happened.
                    After all they were willing to bet on your horse and since no one would race with out purse money and betting was (now gaming) a big part of where purse money comes from IMHO all betters in a small way become "owners" of the horses....
                    and yes if one of my horses breaks down and does not finish a race i will make the reason public....
                    owner and friend of members of the Limping And Majestic Equine Society.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by midnightride View Post
                      when you enter a horse in a "public" race you do lay yourself on the line- totally!! Brisnet etc... keep records of EVERYTHING You do, the horses are drug tested (and i think these results should be more public) and everyday folks are paying hard earned money to bet on your horses- so YES you should be willing to tell them what happened.
                      After all they were willing to bet on your horse and since no one would race with out purse money and betting was (now gaming) a big part of where purse money comes from IMHO all betters in a small way become "owners" of the horses....
                      and yes if one of my horses breaks down and does not finish a race i will make the reason public....
                      I have to say, I disagree with just about everything in this post. Entering a horse in a race is no more putting it out in the public than entering it in a horse show is; and the notion that bettors become "owners" of the horses is patently ludicrous. For anyone who feels entitled to own a piece of my horses because they have watched them race, I invite you to share in the six figure bills that it costs me to keep them on the track each year. Owners are the people who take responsibility for the horses, not the people who watch them on TV.

                      I know plenty of bettors and I don't know a single one who bets their "hard earned money" in order to make an altruistic contribution toward purses. Bettors bet because they hope to get back more money than they pay in. Period. And the betting model as it currently exists rewards bettors and bet-takers far more than it channels money into purses.

                      I don't think "the public" is entitled to any more information about my horses than I feel comfortable in giving, any more than I think I'm entitled to information about your children--who use public facilities every time they go to school--just because I'm curious and I want to know.
                      www.laurienberenson.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LaurieB View Post
                        For anyone who feels entitled to own a piece of my horses because they have watched them race, I invite you to share in the six figure bills that it costs me to keep them on the track each year.
                        Well said, Laurie. I agree completely.

                        It's not the serious horseplayers I see demanding information. If it were, I would see more merit in the argument. Further, the public demand for information can quickly become a slippery slope. You want information on horses who are vanned off, but what about those that come back lame but leave the track under their own power? As someone who claims, I would love information on how all horses come back from a race. But, that obviously doesn't make sense for their connections to provide. So, where do you draw the line?

                        Also, I think it's worth noting that the majority of the people on the backside have no clue about these internet forums and have no idea there are so many people interested in their horses. When it comes to seriously injured horses, I think a lot of times people aren't trying to hide information, they just aren't aware people want to know. And, I think people who are aware of these forums know enough to be more than a little afraid of over-the-top lynch mob mentalities (I know I would be if - heaven forbid - I have a catastrophic breakdown).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          http://hollywoodpark.com/file_downlo.../vets_list.pdf

                          Quarter Moon is listed as "unsound" on the vet list.

                          The lack of updates from the racing media has nothing to do with indifference as much as capability. Both BH and TT have been victims of the economy and are working with reduced staffs-- sadly, following up on all of the DNFs during the week (not to mention the accidents during the morning) would require a much more favorable climate for print magazines.

                          You can read more about the JC's injury database here: http://www.jockeyclub.com/initiatives.asp

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LaurieB View Post
                            I have to say, I disagree with just about everything in this post. Entering a horse in a race is no more putting it out in the public than entering it in a horse show is; and the notion that bettors become "owners" of the horses is patently ludicrous. For anyone who feels entitled to own a piece of my horses because they have watched them race, I invite you to share in the six figure bills that it costs me to keep them on the track each year. Owners are the people who take responsibility for the horses, not the people who watch them on TV.

                            I know plenty of bettors and I don't know a single one who bets their "hard earned money" in order to make an altruistic contribution toward purses. Bettors bet because they hope to get back more money than they pay in. Period. And the betting model as it currently exists rewards bettors and bet-takers far more than it channels money into purses.

                            I don't think "the public" is entitled to any more information about my horses than I feel comfortable in giving, any more than I think I'm entitled to information about your children--who use public facilities every time they go to school--just because I'm curious and I want to know.
                            i hope for your sake you never have a "big horse"

                            really are you kidding!!!!

                            where do you think the money comes from that pays the track employes??? the gate crew, the track staff the barn guys etc...... BETTING!!!!!!! or now gaming- this is why states with out gaming are in BIG, Big, BIG trouble!!!!

                            get out from under your rock and realize that if the public does not L.O.V.E. horse racing it will not exist..... simple fact.... and i can pull up lots of quotes on this fact if you care to disagree.....

                            you exist as a trainer (i assume you are one) because people are willing to bet on horse racing.....they own you...... get over it.....
                            owner and friend of members of the Limping And Majestic Equine Society.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by midnightride View Post
                              i hope for your sake you never have a "big horse"

                              really are you kidding!!!!

                              where do you think the money comes from that pays the track employes??? the gate crew, the track staff the barn guys etc...... BETTING!!!!!!! or now gaming- this is why states with out gaming are in BIG, Big, BIG trouble!!!!

                              get out from under your rock and realize that if the public does not L.O.V.E. horse racing it will not exist..... simple fact.... and i can pull up lots of quotes on this fact if you care to disagree.....

                              you exist as a trainer (i assume you are one) because people are willing to bet on horse racing.....they own you...... get over it.....
                              Your delusions are entertaining, I'll give you that.

                              The majority of the public does not currently "L.O.V.E" horse racing and yet it continues to exist because there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of racehorse owners who are willing to put more effort and money into the sport than they can ever hope to recoup. I'd imagine that all of them would be surprised to hear--from you--that both they and their horses are owned by the fans.
                              www.laurienberenson.com

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                thoroughbred racing and breeding
                                edited by tom r underwood
                                chapter 1

                                the role of racing
                                "racing is a thrilling sport. it is a colorful spectacle. follow the crowds to the race course on the day of any classic fixed event or big special and you will see why it has grown so largely in popularity or public flavor. it calls for devotees from every walk of life"


                                "the shibboleth that ' on the turf as under the turf all men are equal' is exemplified every day at the races"

                                "The thoroughbred horse is the idol of racing enthusiasts."


                                later in the book-
                                page 46
                                " during the time he has been retired 1,320,000 persons have visited Man o' War at his home"

                                if the public was not important to the owners of horses such as Man o War why would they allow them to come and see him??? Why would the connections of Zenyatta go to the trouble of making not one but several retirement presentations????? and can the folks that supported Barbaro by buying arm bands at the local gas station not feel they have some interest in the horse????
                                owner and friend of members of the Limping And Majestic Equine Society.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Midnightride, none of this is important to you when you have just watched a horse you care about break down... go from a pinnacle of strength and readiness to an injured animal, in pain. What some member of the racing public "wants" from you in terms of information is NOT at the forefront of your brain. One's only concern is for the horse. Decisions about the horse's future are made, must be made quickly, important decisions. Those decisions are dependent on the extent of the injury, the availability of veterinary care, the chances of success of that veterinary treatment, having a value or reason to put the horse through it all rather than just your own inability to accept the injury or death, and how much you can spend to attempt to achieve this treatment and recovery. Sometimes, the decision must be made to put the horse down instead of trying to save the animal. The struggle to attempt to save an injured horse may not be successful, the outcome is not a guaranteed thing. It may be ongoing, take days to know if success will be the outcome. This tends to make people who care about the horse SAD. EMOTIONAL. GRIEVING. Do I have to explain this to you further? Put yourself in the shoes of another, for just a moment, and try to understand how this feels, rather than simply demand that your informational needs are met in a timely manner. Shall we tear your guts out with grief and expect you to care what the general public wants from YOU at that moment? It is not a time to even think about making a public announcement.

                                  Owning racehorses has moments of incredible highs, joy, pride and victory that have nothing to do with making money. Money earned is icing on the cake. It is easy to share these moments with everyone in a public manner. It also has moments of extreme sorrow and regret, the worst lows one can experience, perhaps other than losing a human family member, because these horses are so brave, strong and we who care about TBs respect them so much. Decisions made regarding an injured horse are hard sometimes when things don't go well. Privacy is paramount when these decisions are made. Sometimes the general racing public, which includes people who may have bet on the horse when it is entered in the race or feel a connection with the horse, may not agree with or understand the full extent of the hard decisions made. About the last thing somebody involved with this peril needs is judgement, criticism, from somebody who is not involved with the horse or the actual situation, in a negative manner... visualize somebody who is not an owner of the horse becoming angry and/or accusatory that the horse was put down when they feel it should not have been. Without knowing all the facts, sometimes people think they have differing opinions. Owners who are grieving and emotional do not need this at this time, especially if the decision has been hard and the situation has been UGLY. If and when an owner or trainer CAN, and feels it is a move in the interest of racing to make an announcement about the condition and future of a horse who has been "vanned off", they may do so, but it is not something that can be or should be DEMANDED or expected by those not directly involved with the situation, and the horse.

                                  Does this help you to understand the situation that most of the owner/trainers here are trying to extend to you?


                                  Originally posted by midnightride View Post
                                  thoroughbred racing and breeding
                                  edited by tom r underwood
                                  chapter 1

                                  the role of racing
                                  "racing is a thrilling sport. it is a colorful spectacle. follow the crowds to the race course on the day of any classic fixed event or big special and you will see why it has grown so largely in popularity or public flavor. it calls for devotees from every walk of life"


                                  "the shibboleth that ' on the turf as under the turf all men are equal' is exemplified every day at the races"

                                  "The thoroughbred horse is the idol of racing enthusiasts."


                                  later in the book-
                                  page 46
                                  " during the time he has been retired 1,320,000 persons have visited Man o' War at his home"

                                  if the public was not important to the owners of horses such as Man o War why would they allow them to come and see him??? Why would the connections of Zenyatta go to the trouble of making not one but several retirement presentations????? and can the folks that supported Barbaro by buying arm bands at the local gas station not feel they have some interest in the horse????
                                  www.cordovafarm.weebly.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    the only point i was attempting to make is that if maybe the american public is allowed to develop a greater love of the common horses in horse racing and not just see the horses like Zenyatta Rachael and Barbaro but to know more about the little guys. if a girl in FL follows a horse at Calder and watches all of his races and one then one day he goes down, it would seem to me that if the girl didn't have any closure it would leave a slightly bad taste in her mouth IF she was not used to the race track world. i think informing the public would be much better than keeping them in the dark and having them wonder what really goes on... the worst thing racing can allow is rumors/lies to start if a way of informing the public without taking away from the private lives of owners then it should be attempted. and maybe then there would be more day to day interest in the sport and not just a few times a year.

                                    I know all about the ups and downs of racing, been in the sport for about 12 yrs......

                                    and what about the obituary column in all news papers- seems to me a person loosing their husband is just as private as them loosing a horse.
                                    owner and friend of members of the Limping And Majestic Equine Society.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by midnightride View Post
                                      I know all about the ups and downs of racing, been in the sport for about 12 yrs......
                                      Your profile says that you event and rescue TBs. If that is true, you are not "in" the sport any more than my riding a former Olympic horse once meant I was in the Olympics.

                                      Please re-read Nancy M's beautifully written explanation of where we are coming from. If you truly want to be an effective "rehomer" of TBs (I hate the other "r" word bandied about indiscriminately) a little empathy might be in order.

                                      Just sayin'.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        If your "girl in Florida" is not used to the racing world, she may not in a position to accept the fact that racing injuries happen. That horses that she has made a connection with can and will die in the pursuit of the sport, and that that is part of the world of racing. It is the price we pay for trying them, testing them to the limits and sometimes beyond the physical limits that an equine body can withstand.

                                        If your "girl in Florida" wishes to pursue her interest in racehorses and racing in general, she will learn these things in time, and will have to decide if she can understand and accept these things, or if she will reject the sport because of what can happen to the horses who participate in it.

                                        Should she pursue her interest in horseracing to the extent that she does have some understanding of it's downside, she will know what "vanned off" means, and what the close connections of that horse are going through, and feel empathy for them as well as the horse involved.

                                        It's an interesting parallel that you draw between an obituary for a spouse. Often, a recently deceased family member has grown older, or has had sickness, which has readied the rest of the family for the oncoming loss. Sometimes not, with accidental deaths of course. But in human deaths, obituaries are not written and published until the crisis is over, and those involved can face writing them, and sending them to the newspaper. Also, the death of a family member is often not a decision that must be made by the family, lethal injection or a mercy bullet done at the family's urging is rare.

                                        I do think that racetracks SHOULD keep anonymous track of each and every horse with papers in at the race office, which the listed trainer must complete annually, to track what happens to racehorses. First option would be: intends to return to racing in 2010. Next options would include injuries that happened, lack of racing talent, and decisions made regarding the horse's future. That way, a track could combat "anti's" with statistics and notice when trends or changes happen over time to racehores. Perhaps:

                                        55% of all horses racing last year are returning to race again next year. 5% were put down by the track veterinarian due to terminal injury racing or in training. 5% were put down by owners or trainers or sold for meat as a result of racing injuries. 5% were placed in new homes or back to breeders or owners as pets. 10% were placed or sold for pleasure riding or competitive riding. 10% went to race at another venue. 10% were retired to the breeding shed. Etc. (does that add up to 100%? I'm just postulating equine futures here, addition may not be perfect)

                                        In terms of soundness: 55% did not suffer injury to end their racing career. 10% had career ending soft tissue injury. 20% had career ending bone injury or joint injury. 15% had lack of talent issues that made them uneconomic to continue racing.

                                        Do you not think that this would be a valuable information statistic for all?
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