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Unraced for 9 years, bred mare entered tomorrow?

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  • Unraced for 9 years, bred mare entered tomorrow?

    Mare is 12 years old. Hasn't raced in 9 years. Has been bred.

    Grand Forks, Churchill race 5. Wednesday.

    Trainer is also the owner. Was a pretty decent horse 9-12 years ago.

    I guess I'm asking what's the motivation?

  • #2
    get her claimed before the winter?
    Originally posted by BigMama1
    Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
    GNU Terry Prachett

    Comment


    • #3
      There is a guy in the next barn over from me that put his broodmare back into race training. He didnt want to breed her again next year after she had problems getting in foal this year. Instead of her just standing around he put her in training, and to be honest she looks fabulous. He said she always ran best "fresh" - meaning after some time off.

      IIRC the 12 yo mare in KY shows some nice breezes, 2 from the gate, so they have done their homework in that regard. If she hadn't (had the required gate breezes) they would have refused the entry. I think the rule (at least here - its usually the same for all/most tracks) says a horse can race up to age 13 - after that it has to have won a race the year before to be able to start. So, a 13 yo can run the following year if it wins a race at age 13. And if it wins at 14, it can run at 15.

      Professional event horses compete into their teens - in fact aren't they really just considered to be hitting their stride, so to speak, once they are 10 or 11? Any idea why the idea of racing a teenage horse is so shocking compared to the thought of an Olympic mount being in it's teens? I agree that a return to the races after 9 years is quite bewildering - heck most horses dont race at 9 let alone have 9 years off. But this mare was quite talented as a youngster and certainly is in no danger of being claimed (unless it was by a group looking to permanently retire her because of the 9 year shock factor).

      I might not agree with what the owner/trainer is doing but I will certainly defend their right to do what they want to with their horse as long as they follow protocol and aren't injuring or harming the horse. That said, sending your kid to school on the bus can prove disastrous in the incidence of a bus accident (God forbid - knock knock knocking), but that doesn't mean I wont send mine to school.
      Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
      Racehorses, OTTBs ~~ 330 383 1281
      Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway. -- John Wayne

      Comment


      • #4
        It would be quite different if she'd been in steady training/racing over the past nine years. She may have cleaner limbs and less wear-and-tear than most of the rest of the (much younger) field.

        Comment


        • #5
          What Jessi said.

          They probably put her back in training because she has some talent and is sound and they felt it was a better use of her than being a broodmare. Frequently, people on the Internet (and I'm not directing this at the OP - who asked a legitimate question) are aghasted at older horses racing and feel that they need to be "saved" and "surely s/he has earned his/her retirement!" Yet, they are also aghasted at people breeding their retirees or sending them to the stockyards or otherwise not giving them an approved retirement. I've never understood that double standard.

          I hope she runs well. If she's had good works, she's probably enjoying herself. And, she's definitely in no danger of being claimed. (Is she in for a tag and if so, what?)

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Actually, I brought it up as I read about it and there are those who are aghast, but I think they do not own horses.

            If the trainer is ethical, and assuming the horse is in condition, she is likely safer now than she was at 2.

            I find it strange that we worry about a 12 year old's foundation, but not 2 year olds, since 12 is not at all old for a horse.

            Breeding usually takes precedence over racing, so few people are used to seeing 12 year olds out on the track, I guess.


            I can't wait to see how she does.

            I'm one of those who believe horses are too young to race, with weight on their backs, at 2. I'd rather see them wait until 3 when they have more foundation, but that is another topic.

            Meanwhile, one of my friends is into long distance racing, and there are horses in their 20's doing long distance racing, 100 miles, at age 20. And they are fine.

            Comment


            • #7
              Sleepy...she's in for $5,000. 6 & 1/2 furlongs. Equibase horse search shows her past p's. She was claimed last start at Del Mar (raced on the West Coast...this is her first East Coast start) for $32,000 in August of 2000. Then somewhere along the line she ended up in the hands of her current owner/trainer (as she's not who claimed her....).

              Current Workout:

              The Thoroughbred Center 11/12/09 Dirt 5F 1:06.00 Breezing from the gate Rank 4/4

              The Thoroughbred Center 11/07/09 Dirt 4F 50.00 Breezing from the gate Rank 6/23

              The Thoroughbred Center 11/03/09 Dirt 5F 1:04.00 Breezing Rank 6/14


              Racing Summary:
              Starts Firsts Seconds Thirds Earnings
              11 3 0 2 $ 80,900

              Comment


              • #8
                But you have to admit it is unusual to bring a horse THAT old back into racing.

                I don't like 2 yo racing, but I have seen were it is a necessary evil if you want to make the 3 yo classical circuit, especially in the US where the Triple crown is early on the card.

                I love the older horses, I saw a mare for sale on LOPEtx, older, with a long career, that's the stuff I as amateur like, longevity!
                Originally posted by BigMama1
                Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                GNU Terry Prachett

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think it is going to prove to be a waste of time financially but as long as she is sound and well cared for I don't have a problem with it. I prefer it to making more babies they can't afford.
                  McDowell Racing Stables

                  Home Away From Home

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    From what I read (thoroughbredtimes.com), the "trainer" is the owner, who doesn't seem to know much about racing. This is her first racehorse. She bought it as a riding horse, then after a few gallops for fun, thought she'd race the horse because the horse wanted to run. LOL. So does my gelding. Loves it, actually, but he was no racehorse when he was young, and he'd never make a comeback.

                    What really bothers me about this owner/"trainer" is her admitting that she is cash-strapped but wants more horses. Hello? Do you know what it costs to race a horse, just one? Why did you buy a horse in the first place if you don't have money and your option/idea for how to get money for more horses is to bet big on this one?

                    This woman is tyring to live a fairytale dream -- I just hope the horse doesn't end up in a nightmare.
                    "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bacchus View Post
                      From what I read (thoroughbredtimes.com), the "trainer" is the owner, who doesn't seem to know much about racing. This is her first racehorse. She bought it as a riding horse, then after a few gallops for fun, thought she'd race the horse because the horse wanted to run. LOL. So does my gelding. Loves it, actually, but he was no racehorse when he was young, and he'd never make a comeback.

                      What really bothers me about this owner/"trainer" is her admitting that she is cash-strapped but wants more horses. Hello? Do you know what it costs to race a horse, just one? Why did you buy a horse in the first place if you don't have money and your option/idea for how to get money for more horses is to bet big on this one?

                      This woman is tyring to live a fairytale dream -- I just hope the horse doesn't end up in a nightmare.
                      KY doesn't have any requirements to get a trainers license? I thought most tracks required you to be licensed as at least a groom for so many years before you were even allowed to take the test??

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        She is listed as the trainer. She has no previous record as a trainer -- this is her first start. I assume she had to pass a trainer's test, but from some of the yahoos I've seen training, it can't be that hard
                        "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just scratched from the race

                          Before that interestingly her odds had dropped from 50-1 for the ML and down to 17-1 and was far from the longest shot in the race ....

                          ETA: just an hour ago there had been a jockey change from Justin Bishop to Bonnie Castaneda

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Stewards' scratch, not vet's.
                            "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bacchus View Post
                              She is listed as the trainer. She has no previous record as a trainer -- this is her first start. I assume she had to pass a trainer's test, but from some of the yahoos I've seen training, it can't be that hard
                              I agree...the test is really easy & the one I took years ago had very little to actually pertain to the 'race' horse. Just most tracks I've been at wouldn't allow you to take the test unless you were licensed at a race track for say 3 yrs as either a groom, owner, etc....

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I wish it was much more difficult to become a trainer. The thought that I could pass the test is frightening, even though I've been around horses for 37 years, have a degree in Animal Science / Pre Vet, worked at a vet clinic, broke yearlings and galloped horses on the track. I'm still not qualified to train a racehorse!!!
                                "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  So why was she scratched?
                                  SPAY/NEUTER/RESCUE/ADOPT!
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                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Probably an abundance of phone calls to the Stewards before the race

                                    I'm really not sure, though.
                                    "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by moonriverfarm View Post
                                      So why was she scratched?
                                      A sad mess is all I can say and the Kentucky authorities didn't want to be part of it. There is more to it including what appears to be a verbal DNR restriction as part of her transfer ....

                                      DRF - Stewards' scratch prevents 12-year-old's return

                                      A potentially unsavory situation turned into a tearful one Wednesday when a 12-year-old mare who had not raced in more than nine years was scratched in the paddock prior to the fifth race at Churchill Downs.

                                      Grand Forks, whose last race had come Aug. 7, 2000, at Del Mar, was 15-1 with 11 minutes to post for the $5,000 claiming race when chief steward John Veitch conferred for several minutes with owner-trainer Kathleen Costello, ultimately informing her that the mare had to be scratched. Costello, 27, broke into tears, denied of her chance to make her debut as a trainer.

                                      "I can't afford to bring her down here and not run her," Costello, based in Lexington, said between sobs.

                                      Rick Trontz, a central Kentucky breeder who had claimed the horse for $32,000 from the Del Mar race but had no luck with her as a producer, said Tuesday he gave the mare to Costello, a former employee, but only with the stipulation that Grand Forks be used strictly as a pleasure horse.

                                      John Odom, who was assisting Costello in the care of the horse Wednesday, said: "The bill of sale only says the mare cannot be bred. It doesn't say anything about not racing her. Nothing was ever said about that." When he learned the mare would not be permitted to run, Odom screamed at Veitch: "Why is she scratched?!"

                                      Costello, who got her trainer's license several months ago, had put Grand Forks through three recorded workouts this month at the Thoroughbred Training Center in Lexington, but Veitch told Costello the mare would have to work in front of a state veterinarian before being permitted to race.

                                      Said Odom: "We met all the requirements posted," including the standard pre-race physical examination by the state veterinarian. "They should have told us we were scratched before we went through all this."

                                      Veitch released a statement that read in part: "We decided to err on the side of caution and to protect the animal and the betting public . . . It was a tough call." He conceded that no specific rules were broken.

                                      Veitch said later: "We've told Ms. Costello that we would be willing to work with her but that we need more information about the health and well-being of the horse."

                                      He said the delay in scratching the horse was because he and the other stewards "had not been fully appraised of the situation" and that other commitments delayed their informing Costello of the scratch.

                                      Costello had worked for about six months with broodmares when employed by Trontz at his Hopewell Farm in Midway, Ky., before being laid off in June.

                                      Trontz said Tuesday that he was dismayed that Costello would attempt to race Grand Forks and that he feared for the well-being of the horse, considering her advanced age and the length of time since she had raced.

                                      Trontz said Grand Forks, by Quiet American, had failed to get in foal almost every year, although "she did have a baby that I believe died at a very early age after some sort of accident." After so many years of futility, Grand Forks became a riding horse, and when Costello was laid off, according to Trontz, she asked to take the horse with her, and he agreed.

                                      Trontz said Costello later contacted him to get the Jockey Club registry papers for the mare, assuring him it was for the purposes of entering her in a dressage event, so he gave her the papers.

                                      "This is all very disturbing to me," Trontz said.

                                      Grand Forks was scheduled to be ridden Wednesday by Bonnie Castaneda. A crowd of curiosity seekers had gathered around the paddock to take a look at the horse when the unusual scene unfolded.

                                      Veitch said he would "look into reimbursing some expenses" incurred by Costello and Castaneda.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Glimmerglass View Post
                                        Trontz said Costello later contacted him to get the Jockey Club registry papers for the mare, assuring him it was for the purposes of entering her in a dressage event, so he gave her the papers.
                                        Way to go, owner/trainer-wannabe-person. Set another very public precident on why it's so hard to get papers on some horses coming off the track

                                        Back to the "she loved to run" stuff...what part of the dressage test is a full gallop? I must have missed that part. And since when would you actually need the papers to enter a dressage event?? Smoke and mirrors.

                                        Comment

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