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Rules gurus - help me out here

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  • Rules gurus - help me out here

    From today's TDN:

    Trainer Barry Abrams plan of running Lethal Heat (Unusual Heat) in Friday’s GI Breeders Cup Ladies’ Classic and the Breeders’ Cup Turf Sprint Saturday appears to have hit a roadblock. While the Ladies’ Classic drew just nine pre-entries, including Zenyatta, theTurf Sprint was oversubscribed. The rules don’t allow for a horse to run in a Friday race and a Saturday race if a horse is excluded from running as a result of that horse running in both races, explained Tom Robbins,chairman of the Breeders’ Cup Racing Directors/Secretaries Panel. In the case of the Ladies’ Classic--not overfilled, not a problem. Saturday’s race is overfilled at this point. If there is a horse that is excluded because Lethal Heat is entered in both races, she will not be allowed to enter in both races. She will need to be declared Tuesday when entries are drawn.

    Can someone please explain the statement in bold? It reads as if a horse will not be allowed to run in a race if a horse is excluded from running in a race.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

  • #2
    It's funky sentence structure, but he means Lethal Heat will not be allowed to run in both races if ANOTHER horse is excluded from one of them because Lethal Heat is entered. In other words, if Comet the Wonder Horse wants to go in the Turf Sprint, but it's oversubscribed and he can't, but Lethal Heat is entered in both the Turf Sprint and the Ladies' Classic, she can't do both. If NEITHER race is oversubscribed, then she can.
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    • #3
      Your man's got stones if he truly wants to race her both days! It doesn't appear to be the case (see his comment below) however if it was then I have to say I'm not sure if I respect that or just view it as greed or game play to intentionally preclude another.

      If he has that much of a monster who would be adept at running in two graded stakes races in less then 36 hours so be it. Worth noting that only Golden Man (in 2005) had as much muster to do so - hitting the board in two graded stakes races in 24 hours - in the last 50 years.

      From the Daily Racing Form:

      Breeders' Cup rules read that a horse cannot be entered in two races if doing so will deny a horse a spot in a race. Lethal Heat is in the main body of the Turf Sprint because of graded stakes points she accumulated during the year. But that race drew 22 pre-entries, so there is the very real possibility that her entering that race would keep someone out.

      If that is the case on Tuesday, Abrams will have to pick one race or the other, according to Tom Robbins, who heads the international panel of racing officials employed by the Breeders' Cup to rank fields in oversubscribed races.

      "Right now, if they let me, I'm going to enter both races," Abrams said Wednesday. "She loves coming down the hill and she loves synthetic surfaces. But if we decide to run Friday, I doubt she'd run back Saturday."
      Let's face it if you could transport in time a rock solid iron mare with gobs of speed like Pan Zareta to 2009 you frankly could race her twice on Friday and also Saturday with an almost certain victory or at least always on the board. Cha-ching!

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      • Original Poster

        #4
        Is now an appropriate time to mention that Lethal Heat is catalogued in Book One of the Keeneland November sale?

        Yes, I know the catalog closed quite a while ago, but jeeze louise, what a crazy plan it would be to run a horse on Friday or Saturday of the BC in California and then ship said horse to Kentucky for a sale the following Tuesday. I'm sure someone knows of someone who did it (trivia experts invited to expound on this, by the way) but wow, that's not something I would ever dream of doing.

        And Glimmer, he obviously was thinking of running her in both races at some point in time. The TDN quote makes that pretty clear.
        "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

        Comment


        • #5
          Did she not break her maiden down the hill with Olguin up? And then win a couple in a row in a short time frame.
          Barry is the standardbred king of TB's on this kind of wacky move and he does get the job done with regularity.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Blinkers On View Post
            Did she not break her maiden down the hill with Olguin up? And then win a couple in a row in a short time frame.
            Evidently she can rebound very quickly although its a far cry to race with a few days off vs. taking on a Breeders' Cup quality field twice in less then 30 hours.

            Abrams prior quick works

            "I’m going to run Lethal Heat in the Ladies’ Classic on Friday and down the hill on Saturday,” Abrams said, referring to the aforementioned races. “They do it in other countries. Lethal Heat ran twice last week and finished second both times.”

            Lethal Heat has raced on less than two weeks rest four times during her career. She won her first three career starts at the Breeders’ Cup Turf Sprint course and distance, including the Santa Paula Stakes (G3).
            That certainty of running back to back clearly was tempered with the DRF quoted comment which I presume he gave later.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by hitchinmygetalong View Post
              Is now an appropriate time to mention that Lethal Heat is catalogued in Book One of the Keeneland November sale?

              Yes, I know the catalog closed quite a while ago, but jeeze louise, what a crazy plan it would be to run a horse on Friday or Saturday of the BC in California and then ship said horse to Kentucky for a sale the following Tuesday. I'm sure someone knows of someone who did it (trivia experts invited to expound on this, by the way) but wow, that's not something I would ever dream of doing.
              I don't find that to be a big deal; she'd have more time than mares have had in the past. In the past the Fasig sale has been on a Sunday, so mares in that one would race on Saturday and then sell the next evening. Keeneland mares would sell Monday morning.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Beaver, how many of them had to fly in from California to sell? That's the point I was trying to make.
                "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

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                • #9
                  Of COURSE the trainer is not thinking of running her in both races. He is nominating her to both races to see which one will come up most favorable for his horse - nothing new about that. The problem, and the reason for it even being mentioned, is:

                  "Breeders' Cup rules read that a horse cannot be entered in two races if doing so will deny a horse a spot in a race."

                  If he enters her in both obviously he will plan to only run in one, and if doing so denies another horse a chance to run (because she is entered but won't run) that horse's connections are going to be pretty ticked off.
                  Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
                  Racehorses, OTTBs ~~ 330 383 1281
                  Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway. -- John Wayne

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jessi P View Post
                    Of COURSE the trainer is not thinking of running her in both races. He is nominating her to both races to see which one will come up most favorable for his horse - nothing new about that. The problem, and the reason for it even being mentioned, is:

                    "Breeders' Cup rules read that a horse cannot be entered in two races if doing so will deny a horse a spot in a race."

                    If he enters her in both obviously he will plan to only run in one, and if doing so denies another horse a chance to run (because she is entered but won't run) that horse's connections are going to be pretty ticked off.
                    Not so, his original intention was to run her both races, he stated as much in several interviews.
                    It's a moot point now as the Turf Sprint is oversubscribed, so she will run only in the Distaff.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hitchinmygetalong View Post
                      Beaver, how many of them had to fly in from California to sell? That's the point I was trying to make.
                      Too many to count

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Too many to count? I'll make it easy, then. Give me the names of two race fillies that raced on Saturday, then flew from California to Kentucky to sell the following Monday or Tuesday. Just two.

                        Thanks.
                        "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          off the top of my head... from last year, there was Stardom Bound and Hystericalady. They both raced on Friday though.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ditto those for sure and then some... They fly it is quick and easy. Both of the above mentioned were good horses that sold well that shipped asap. Hystericalady was a practiced flyer.. Guarantee she didn't miss an oat.

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                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Thanks for correcting me. Guess I need to do some homework before I shoot off my mouth, eh?
                              "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

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                              • #16
                                The BC was a week earlier, relative to the sale last year, I believe.

                                As for Lethal Heat, they were thinking of runner her both days but they may not if doing so keeps others out. Looks like they will have to choose one and stick with it.
                                F O.B
                                Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
                                Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

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