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The impending Breeder's Cup

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  • #21
    It looks like none of the 3 winners of "Win and In" races at Woodbine last week are going. Champs Elysees is supposed to retire to Banstead Manor and the winner of the EP Taylor is not nominated. So much for that great idea...
    Rainbow View is expected to go to the Cup though.

    Other "outs" include Fabulous Strike, macho Again and Gitano Hernando.
    F O.B
    Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
    Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique


    • #22
      Win and you're in is a stupid concept anyway as most of the time the races do not overfill. It should be win and you don't have to pay anything at all to run in the race period. That would be worth striving for, especially for a non nominated horse.
      McDowell Racing Stables

      Home Away From Home


      • #23
        WIYA is meaningless if they require huge supplements for winners of the events. Also, most of the races are won by horses that would get in anyhow. It's not like the winner of the Goodwood or the Whitney will be forced out.
        F O.B
        Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
        Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique


        • #24
          I wish MTB would try the marathon not the classic...might be more to his liking with the added distance..Wondering if Zenyatta will face the boys? any word?
          Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
          Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
          "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"


          • #25
            Rainbow View is a nice little filly too. I had her in the test barn at Woodbine. Irish bred I believe.
            Its a shame none of the woodbine winners are in.. the supplements are pretty brutal
            Love and Laughter - 2005 TB Mare - Boss Mare
            Foxfire Lacey - 2007 Half Welsh Superstar
            New Sensation - 1986- 2014 Love you to the moon and back


            • #26
              Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
              Win and you're in is a stupid concept anyway as most of the time the races do not overfill. It should be win and you don't have to pay anything at all to run in the race period. That would be worth striving for, especially for a non nominated horse.
              No kidding. I think some marketing person thought up Win and You're In to generate excitement in some races hoping that the public wouldn't be smart enough to know it is a stupid concept. As you said, the races rarely overfill and the horses that belong in the race are the ones that get in.

              Just read on Blood Horse that Gitano Hernando won't be going to the Breeders' Cup. So another WAYI horse skipping the Breeders' Cup.


              • #27
                Originally posted by Zevida View Post
                .... to generate excitement in some races hoping that the public wouldn't be smart enough to know it is a stupid concept.
                Worth stating is that I really think the whole program means zip to the general public. Horsemen? Sure, but as we all know its always been "win and you get an invite but no free ride". As for waiving the fee I really don't see how the BC could afford that. They aren't wallowing in money right now [core reserve funds placed in investments have tanked, etc] and there is no oil well in the desert funding these two days of racing

                Now I'd like to think there are some smart marketing & finance people within the BC organization who could come up with some "free passes" for those horses who have been above and beyond the rest and should get a free ride. Maybe a point system for the last 12-months with racing.

                There was an article in the last few days (I don't have the time to hunt it down) that stated that this Breeders' Cup would be the last of its kind in many ways. Among the "won't happen again" - any track with a synthetic main track and even two day format. I presume also no track will host it back-to-back even if it was Churchill Downs however there are valid marketing reasons to retain that concept.


                • #28
                  My favorite idea (that I originated!) for the Breeders' Cup is to split up the turf and dirt races and hold them on the same day at different tracks. You open up the available track options, including holding the turf races overseas and truly making it a World Championship. Imagine the dirt races at Belmont and the turf at Longchamp. Or the dirt races in Japan and the turf races at Colonial Downs. Plus, you can run the races every 15-20 minutes on TV which is going to make it a heck of a lot easier to consume for the TV watcher. I'm sorry but the 40 minute wait between races is not interesting to the casual viewer.


                  • #29
                    Zevida - interesting idea. I'd say a variation on that could be great.

                    Example: reduce it back to 1 day but in large part those races that would've been on Friday are separately held at other tracks on the same day as the primary host BC track.

                    So for an illustration: the BC is at Churchill Downs, however timed in between the races on site would be select other BC races in the US and maybe abroad. So between the 6th and 7th races at CD would be a Breeders' Cup race held at Belmont, then between the 8th and 9th races at CD would be a Breeders' Cup race held at Hawthorne, etc.

                    The wealth could be spread as per say to smaller tracks who could never host the big BC day at their tracks. Either owing to the lack of stabling for that many horses or even the seating. However on that one day they'd have a single big purse Grade 1 BC race with the nations best in that category. Fans would still go to the big BC day at Churchill but those who can't but can only get to say the Illinois track can see at least one big race there and get simulcasted racing.

                    TV viewers are given back to back races without much down time. Not unlike what the Sunshine Millions Day does between Santa Anita and Gulfstream - switching back and forth.

                    The only rub is that with less time between races the wagering pools suffer. The more time you give people to make bets the more money is wagered. Long lines at terminals just are a fact of life and so if you go from having 20-min between races down to just 10-min that will significant eat into the all important wagers. Another downside is (at least for me) watching another track's racing on the tv monitor while at another track actually sucks for the most part.

                    Still an interesting concept.

                    Back to this year's BC: there will be no Baffert vs Lukas in the JV.

                    Lukas' very promising colt Dublin (although who didn't have the success/luck in the Champagne Stakes) will skip going on to California. The surface being the big concern as Lukas is no fan of it. Bob Baffert will be in that race with the early favorite (and possibly an early Kentucky Derby favorite) Lookin at Lucky.

                    Not all bad news as another bright Juvenile star will ship in from NY for the JV: D' Funnybone trained by Rick Dutrow.


                    • #30
                      As cited Dutrow will have the highly regarded D'Funnybone in the JV but worth noting is that IEHA just purchase for the BC JV specifically Radiohead - a Brit based runner who won the group II Norfolk Stakes at Royal Ascot. No Dutrow doing double duty however for IEHA as Radiohead's British trainer Brian Meehan will continue his services until at least the BC.

                      Other IEAH runners for the Breeders Cup:

                      Court Vision in the TVG Breeders' Cup Mile (gr. IT), Amen Hallelujah in the Juvenile Fillies (gr. I), and Diamondrella in the Turf Sprint.


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Glimmerglass View Post
                        Well two changes ...

                        Icon Project is retired (Oct 23rd) with a tendon injury

                        and a reversal

                        Kodiak Kowboy WILL race in the BC Sprint afterall

                        He will however be skipping Frank J. De Francis Memorial Dash (gr. I) to be held today in Maryland.

                        Still no word on what Zenyatta's connections will decide. In the interest of fairness as folks gave Jess Jackson a hard time on RA going into the Travers or Woodward the connections of Zenyatta should be getting the same. However little in the press whines about the indecision that is going on.

                        ESPN/DRF Jay Privman 10-24 "Classic still possible after Zenyatta work"

                        Pre-entries for the Breeders' Cup are due on Monday, and will be officially announced on Wednesday.


                        • #32
                          Indian Blessing to skip the BC F & M Sprint per Bob Baffert. 2007 BC JV Filly winner and 2008 BC F & M Sprint runner up isn't doing well on the Pro Ride surface at Santa Anita, per Baffert, so she'll skip the big race.

                          This could mean the end of her career as she is to retire for 2010 and become a mom ....

                          Misremembered to skip the Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile and will opt (as have others) for the $400,000 Clark Handicap at Churchill Downs Nov 27th. The three year old who is a winner of two Grade 2 races in 2009 is co-owned by Bob Baffert's wife Jill.

                          He is most likely to aim towards two bigger races in early 2010: the Strub and then Santa Anita Handicap.


                          • #33
                            Pre-entries announced tomorrow! I can't wait!

                            I'm expecting to see Zenyatta pre-entered in both the Distaff and the Classic and that they drag it out and make us wait until entries next week.


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by ivy62 View Post
                              I wish MTB would try the marathon not the classic...

                              That's what I was thinking! (another MTB lover here). I like the way Wooley gallops the heck out of him, lots of works, then gives him less closer to race...he is building endurance in that little hoss. He just worked a bullet this week.

                              mastery looks pretty dangerous in the marathon, though. As does Father Time, who won the G1 King Edward VII at Ascot.

                              I personally am staying away from Summer Bird. As you know, his original trainer (Sadler, who knows SA) sent him back east, he didn't like synth, when Ice picked him up. Yes, he's matured, and is a different horse now, but that's always going to be a nagging alarm for me.....

                              Overall, I'm going to look for horses peaking, who were pointed toward FALL campaign, not Spring, as the latter may be tired by now?

                              Do ya'll have any thoughts about the steeplechase? I know NADA about that kind of racing!

                              broke my heart about Icon Project. She was my horse for Ladies classic. I think Proviso is in via frankel/dominguez, dangerous trainer jock combo? Cocoa Beach loves synth, think she is dangerous. Waiting to hear about Zenyatta.......


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Drvmb1ggl3
                                To the best of my knowledge, these horses are pointing towards the following BC races.
                                Hopefully with no threats against him.

                                (UK) Guardian 10-28-09 "Man charged over alleged threat to kill Conduit"

                                The life of the leading racehorse, Conduit, was allegedly threatened this summer by a blackmailer who sought to prevent its participation in Ascot's premier race.

                                The menacing demands are said to have been sent by text message and email, threatening to kill the horse if it was not withdrawn from the King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes in July. Conduit was then a short-priced favourite for that prestigious race, which he went on to win.
                                The world is certainly filled with whacked out people.


                                • #36
                                  Pre-entries announced for the Breeders Cup: (link below)


                                  As expected Zenyatta is cross-posted as an entry for both the Ladies Classic and Breeders' Cup Classic


                                  • #37
                                    Worth pointing out is that Zenyatta is listed for the BCC as the preferred race (over the Ladies Classic) and the connections are indicating that is the place they'll go:

                                    Trainer John Shirreffs, speaking on a national teleconference call Wednesday afternoon, said a final decision would come after Zenyatta works six furlongs on Saturday. But it looks as though she’ll be in the starting gate for the 1 1/4 mile Classic with the likes of, among others, Summer Bird and Rip Van Winkle and Colonel John and Einstein and Mine That Bird.

                                    “We are definitely leaning towards the Classic,” Shirreffs said. “It is obviously a big challenge but, if she is doing well and peaking towards that race, there is no reason not to go in that race. If she is doing really well and we were not to do it, it might be a big mistake.”
                                    An early resource: DRF's (pdf) BC Pre-Entires chart with Mike Watchmaker's odds listed

                                    The Euros look to out in force with some 37 entries (up from 31 last year) and frankly in a race like the Breeders' Cup Turf the organizers should cut the check already to a horse like Conduit. The field for that race is both thin and weak. As noted by the DRF:

                                    The Turf, while luring defending race winner Conduit, also drew just nine runners, including Summer Bird, who is expected to run in the Classic. The quality of the Turf drops alarmingly after the top few contenders.


                                    • #38
                                      TV Schedule

                                      The announced tv coverage:

                                      Friday, November 6: 3 - 7 p.m. Eastern ESPN 2

                                      BC Ladies' Classic (G1)
                                      BC Filly & Mare Turf (G1)
                                      BC Juvenile Fillies (G1)
                                      BC Filly & Mare Sprint (G1)
                                      BC Juvenile Fillies Turf
                                      BC Marathon
                                      Saturday, November 7: 1:30 - 3:30 p.m. Eastern ABC Sports
                                      BC Dirt Mile (G1)
                                      BC Juvenile Turf (G2)
                                      BC Turf Sprint
                                      ..continued but 3:30 - 7 p.m. Eastern switching to ESPN
                                      BC Classic (G1)
                                      BC Turf (G1)
                                      BC Sprint (G1)
                                      BC Mile (G1)
                                      BC Juvenile (G1)


                                      • #39
                                        An interesting new type of wager for the BC: winningest jockey

                                        Breeders' Cup plans to offer a parimutuel bet on which jockey has the most wins in the 14 Breeders' Cup races.

                                        Though the field for the wager has yet to be set, the bet will likely have 14 wagering interests, according to Ken Kirchner, the simulcasting consultant for Breeders' Cup. The 14th betting interest will be a field comprising all jockeys that are not named individually, and ties will be treated as a dead heat, Kirchner said. Wagering will open on Nov. 5, after riders have been named.
                                        Further on the airing times:

                                        The Friday card will start at 11:15 a.m. Pacific with two allowance races. All listed as Pacific Standard Time:

                                        The first Breeders' Cup race, the Marathon, will go off at 12:35 p.m., and will be followed by the Juvenile Fillies Turf (1:08), the Juvenile Fillies (1:45), the Filly and Mare Turf (2:23), the Filly and Mare Sprint (3:02), and the Ladies' Classic (3:45).

                                        On Saturday, the first Breeders' Cup race, the Juvenile Turf, will go off at 10:45 a.m., followed by the Turf Sprint (11:23), the Sprint (12:10), the Juvenile (12:49), the Mile (1:28), the Dirt Mile (2:12), the Turf (2:57), and the Classic (3:45).


                                        • #40
                                          All things considered the Breeders' Cup Classic (assuming Zenyatta is in there) looks to be a very good wagering race. No one is going to be a single standout and that includes Zenyatta. A lot of folks will wager with their hearts and drop her odds to the likely favorite but that is a massive risk.

                                          From the BloodHorse's Steve Haskin 10-30-09

                                          Zenyatta’s speed figures cannot match up to the many of the boys in here, but she’s been winning despite ridiculously slow fractions and just doing just what she has to.
                                          Still, the hardcore bettor likely will stay away, looking for more value. That leaves a hodgepodge of horses from all walks of life converging on the Santa Anita Pro-Ride Nov. 7, most of whom would not be a surprise should they win.
                                          I wouldn't be shocked if Rip Van Winkle (IRE) shipped in for O'Brien pulls off the win then again about five others can make the case too. Summer Bird will be right in there and Colonel John too. Not to rub it in but I simply do not see how MTB will hit the board with that much talent in the field.