• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Anyone know this trainer?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    Ok so basically if I show up tomorrow with some cash and my trailer, even if the horse is entered in a race next week, I can walk out with the horse Maybe its also because if you buy like that there is no time for a vet check?

    I have been in there years ago, I think it was before CANTER was born and that in fact was the case cash + trailer = horse. I dont remember anything much mentioned about "one more race" back then.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by QuillcoteFarm
      Ok so basically if I show up tomorrow with some cash and my trailer, even if the horse is entered in a race next week, I can walk out with the horse
      With some trainers, yes, quite possibly. For others, no.

      Originally posted by QuillcoteFarm
      Maybe its also because if you buy like that there is no time for a vet check?
      Again, not all trainers will be unreasonable. Please don't jump to conclusions. I am not advocating cash + carry sales.

      Originally posted by QuillcoteFarm
      I have been in there years ago, I think it was before CANTER was born and that in fact was the case cash + trailer = horse. I dont remember anything much mentioned about "one more race" back then.
      User mileage will vary. Maybe you just didn't hear about it, or perhaps at that time entries were plentiful.

      The topic was raised, and I'm only trying to help you understand why some trainers hold that stance.
      Last edited by Barnfairy; Jun. 26, 2009, 10:52 AM. Reason: additional content

      Comment


      • #23
        As Barnfairy explained, this situation isn't unusual. If races aren't filling, then racing secretaries put a lot of pressure on trainers to fill the cards. If stalls are at a premium, then the tracks want horses in the stalls that are running. If they don't then the trainers will lose the stalls and they'll go to someone else. Also, the trainer may have verbally committed to entering that horse (as long as it's sound) so the racing secretary can hang a particular race (maybe an alternate) to have it fill. It's not like trainers just walk up and enter their horses on a whim if they like a race. A lot goes into it and there are discussions with the racing staff before a race is even open for entries. Is this making sense?

        I don't think the trainer was trying to be difficult, so much as you probably didn't know the whole story behind why he needed to run the horse.

        For the small amount of money that these horses are probably selling for ($5k or less) I wouldn't even bother with a vet check, unless there is a blemish that looks suspicious (like a big ankle).

        Comment


        • #24
          Believe me I understand, as I have been on the selling end as well, and it does suck at times! I was just wondering if anything had really changed since I had been there last.

          Farmgirl, what didnt you like about Bay Miners conf., I think he looks pretty good in the pic???? Just curious because you saw him in person??

          Comment


          • #25
            I hope I can shed a little light on the subject here. Bear with me as I ramble while trying to explain myself.

            The horse in question might have been in training with the trainer on a "deal" - a very common way of training cheaper claimers that aren't worth paying $1200+/mo to have in training but who can still jump up and hit the board. In this scenario, the trainer assumes all of the day to day expenses and sometimes a % of the vet bill (all detailed ahead of time in a lease agreement) in exchange for a % of what the horse earns. The owner assumes a back seat role in what happens with the horse's race career, after discussing goals and a strategy ahead of time.

            For example. Owner A sends "Ol' Dobbin to Trainer B on a 70/30 deal. Owner A has no expenses and gets 30% of Dobbins earnings. He doesn't have to pay to have the enjoyment of having a racehorse in training. He doesn't call the shots about what the trainer does with the horse either, because the trainer earns that right by assuming the horse's expense. Trainer subsidizes Owner A's "fun and enjoyment," putting minimum $25-30/day out of trainer's pocket into Owner A's horse, not to mention vet work which might also be trainer's responsibility. Owner A has no say over when or where trainer enters horse in a race. Trainer B pays the bills and is in charge of the horse - he is considered the lessor. His is entitled to have the horse on a "race to race" lease. He is entitled to have the horse from race to race in order to recoup his investment in the horse, and all decisions on selling the horse will revolve around that fact. In other words, the horse might be actively for sale but the trainer has the right to keep the horse until it's next race in order to recoup his investment. It is like this... you are selling your horse but you have pre-entered into a horse show or plan to do X with horse Y on such and such a date. That means yes, the horse is actively for sale, but you cannot purchase it until after its next engagement.

            It is always a good question to ask when the horse is available to purchase if it is listed on CANTER. Horses careers are usually ended with a certain race - thinking is usually "this horse is going to run 1 more time, or 2 more times" - they don't stay in training just waiting to be sold, the intent is always to race again. If they aren't waiting for a race for a horse trainers usually send the horse-for-sale to the farm to await sale as it is much cheaper to have one at the farm than the track. The ones still at the track for sale will usually be available after their next race, one last chance for the trainer to recoup the investment he has put into the horse and completely fair and non nefarious. The trainer's thinking in this particular instance, I am sure, is that "Ok, now you have seen the horse and can decide if you want it or not." He will call you after it runs, when it becomes available for purchase, and you will have seen it and be able to make a decision. See the recent thread in Hunter Jumpers about my boy Loveable Lo for a similar scenario, where our owner said "I really want a new horse, this one is running 6th, 6th, 6th. Let's put this one up for sale, run him once more and sell him." Several potential buyers were arranged a few days before his last race. Within days of his race last Sunday Lo was sold and arrived at his new home in NJ today. It is responsible and forward thinking to get the horse advertised before it absolutely needs a new address, why can't people understand that? How many non racing people put their horses up for sale on the internet to see what interest there is in that particular animal? How many people inquire about horses that "aren't really looking right now" or "I have to sell my horse first."

            OK grammar police, feel free to arrest me for over zealous use of apostrophes!! Cuff me and take me away, PLEASE!
            Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
            Racehorses, OTTBs ~~ 330 383 1281
            Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway. -- John Wayne

            Comment


            • #26
              Thank you for your insight, Jessi. Your excellent input, and use of the word "nefarious", have earned you a by on the grammatical snarking.

              IIRC, during this meet the horse has been running for a trainer/owner team of husband & wife.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by MintHillFarm View Post
                And wouldn't you know it, he won the other day, n/w of 2, claiming $4000...
                So I continue to wait!
                Yep mine too. I had three to pick up a few weeks ago and all three won or placed. One was 57-1 long shot. That's how I ended up with the filly listed on give aways. They put her on my trailer before I left.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  huh- very interesting. we stopped by the barn again this weekend with CANTER and he said he didnt forget about us...although a phone call in return would've been nice. He had one more that we're very interested in. maybe we'll take both. both are racing today. The bay still needs to win a check but the other one he said we can go ahead and take. so we'll see after today. after the races today, if bay miner still didnt win a check, we're going to take home the other one as he is better built, just as quiet, and bigger. but theres something about that bay miner horse that my friend just cant get him out of her mind

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Bay Miner took pretty well to the slop at Suffolk today and ran a game race, gutting it out for second.

                    He was cool as a cucumber in the paddock beforehand.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Hmmmmm so does that mean he stays and enters another race, or does he have to win????

                      How often do they run a horse, once a week?????

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        'Can't answer the first question. As for the second, occasionally a horse will come back in as little as 7 days, but usually the low-level claimers at Suffolk make a start every 10-14 days.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          so far miner has race every week for thepast 3 weeks thats i know of. Trainer told us that we could have him once he made a paycheck

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Totally meaningless but interesting to note that Bay Miner has a half brother Bay of Love 1999 by Not for Love that was a durable stakes placed runner, with 62 starts, 12 wins, 7 seconds, 9 thirds and lifetime earnings of 232,812.
                            Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
                            Racehorses, OTTBs ~~ 330 383 1281
                            Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway. -- John Wayne

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              As an aside for your entertainment purposes I told my mare that if she won this race she would never have to race again. It was November and she was going to be bred in February and needed go under lights and such. She won by 11 1/4 lengths and then dropped the jock after the wire and refused to let him get back on! She was retired, he could walk back! She was 35-1. It was by far the best race of her life but I kept my promise and it was her last.
                              McDowell Racing Stables

                              Home Away From Home

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Whoa Laurie -- sounds like she was listening! That's a good one.

                                Originally posted by farmgirl88 View Post
                                so far miner has race every week for thepast 3 weeks thats i know of. Trainer told us that we could have him once he made a paycheck
                                Yup, he's been workin' for a livin'. In the past month:

                                5/31, beaten claiming $4000 for non winners of 2 since 11/30/08

                                1 mile & 70 yards, finished second

                                6/09, beaten claiming 4000 NW2 since 12/09/08, 1 mile & 70, fourth

                                6/20, beaten claiming 4000 NW2 since 12/20/08, 1 1/16th miles, fourth

                                6/29, claiming 5000 NW4 Lifetime, one mile, second

                                Today's effort brought in a paycheck of $1460. (Fourth at that level gets you about $350.) Part of that check goes to the jock, then deduct what was paid for the pony to the gate, oats in the tub, etc etc etc., and if there's any left over, you've netted a profit.
                                Last edited by Barnfairy; Jun. 29, 2009, 10:01 PM.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Is this the same horse Ronnie Brown was trying to sell a while back @ CT?
                                  I just recall this horses name in connection w/ R. Brown and being for sale.

                                  While I do agree w/ alot of everyones reasons behind the sale no sale agena.
                                  Once again if you offer an item be it realestate or livestock and someone offers you your price you are obligated to sell the item unless you upfront make notice on the sale ticket of stipulations. Otherwise remove said object from sale until such time as the transaction can be completed.
                                  Much like some of you who are waiting for a horses career to end. You knew in advance these were the terms of sale. When the trainer finally calls and says it over you can pick up your horse.
                                  But to arrive and look at a horse who is offered for sale, not currently entered in a race, thus no commitment on part of trainer to track and be told he is "going" to be entered. What if the race didn't fill, what if he didn't draw in?? Could you then come back for the horse? When is the sale actually going to be a sale. Not a model home for something to be built in the future?
                                  Something just doesn't sound right, either he is for sale or will be when he's done done. So why not put him up for sale then? Its like bait n switch Oh you see the doll in the window buts it just for dressing, the "other" one is for sale today. The one w/ the bump on the nose???
                                  Fear of losing a stall I understand, but it looks like maybe there isn't another horse to fill the stall w/ so Bay Miner keeps going like the energizer bunny to trickle cash into the coffers.

                                  Not everyone has a farm to send their done horses to. I picked up an 8yr stakes horse @ Pimlico who had no where to go, it happens. And the trainers keep them in some sort of training the owners pay not a full rate since horse isn't being entered or ponied, no vet bills just holding a stall space.

                                  If you are going to sell it, sell it. Otherwise clearly state horse is still actively in training and being entered to race, call for updates when horse will be available.

                                  Its totally a waste of everyones time to make appointments to see a horse you can not pay for and take home.

                                  You are correct it is time consuming for a trainer to hold up a horses program for a potential sale based on "I have to think about it", or wait around for a vetting that might be a day or week away. Cash n carry has always been the best position to be in @ the track. Its not a purchasing plan for the faint of heart or procrastinator.And no I can't spell either......
                                  I hope Bay Miner gets a home and sounds like he's one hard knocking tough cookie who withstood the test of time.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    yes that is the same horse that was with Mr. Brown. hes only a 4 year old but so far hes withstood the test of being run so much.

                                    Uncle wiggly has what i was trying to say. i understand today's paycheck brought in money but its just so frustrating to chase a trainer around when he knows you want the horse and have the money for the horse. they say right on the CANTER site to not waste the trainers time and dont be a tire kicker. what about not wasting the buyers time? We drove an hour 1/2 to come see a horse that wasnt entered to race, and was listed as FOR SALE, not for sale; after he wins a few.

                                    When we got to the track- that was the first i had ever heard that the horse wasn't entered to race the weekend card yet, but hes going to enter him later in the week and if the horse did well we could have him. horse ran 4th. So then no call then he was entered the following week and ran 2nd. still no call back. oh well. right now i think we're just going to move on and just keep looking. we're not going to just stand and wait around for the horse when who knows when he'll be finished with (prob once hes injured) him. we're just going to keep looking as there were a few others we liked and every week nice ones pop up.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by Barnfairy View Post
                                      Whoa Laurie -- sounds like she was listening! That's a good one.

                                      Yup, he's been workin' for a livin'. In the past month:

                                      5/31, beaten claiming $4000 for non winners of 2 since 11/30/08

                                      1 mile & 70 yards, finished second

                                      6/09, beaten claiming 4000 NW2 since 12/09/08, 1 mile & 70, fourth

                                      6/20, beaten claiming 4000 NW2 since 12/20/08, 1 1/16th miles, fourth

                                      6/29, claiming 5000 NW4 Lifetime, one mile, second

                                      Today's effort brought in a paycheck of $1460. (Fourth at that level gets you about $350.) Part of that check goes to the jock, then deduct what was paid for the pony to the gate, oats in the tub, etc etc etc., and if there's any left over, you've netted a profit.

                                      and barnfairy-

                                      i really am trying to make sense of the snarky posts. honestly, i understand why the trainer wants to continue running the horse, but dont tell us after the fact that we made the trip to come see the horse, and made it very clear we wanted him after that race that weekend. we were ok with seeing him race that weekend but now we're pretty confident hes never going to call so we're just going to move on and keep shopping i guess. Sometimes i feel like we're getting the run around too. Its works both ways. It wouldve been nice to know before we made the trip to look at the horse that he wasnt giving him up until he won a check.

                                      Buyers from off the track understand that your in this to make a living and we respect that- but its also a turn-off for buyers when the horse is listed for sale with no known underlying conditions and then its essentially like a wasted to trip to and view the horse.

                                      But im still not understanding the snarkiness that seems to have been made very obvious. im not being rude and i respect everyones opinions and thank everyone for their honest opinion and insight. i just think that when buyers who go there respect a trainer and not give him ..or her...the runaround, we'd like to recieve the same in return. we're not all a bunch of wack-job horse people.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Farmgirl, there is a thread over on Hunter Jumper about a CANTER Cutie w/ chrome for Horseshow Peeps...you should go read that.
                                        It involves Loveable Lo a horse JessiP had for sale on CANTER go read all 9 pages and look @ his Ad on CANTER.
                                        It is similiar to your situation but not exact. And that horse did get sold after his last race to a wonderful home in NJ.
                                        You will see there was much bashing about over there and who the players were

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          farmgirl, it has not at all been my intent to come across as snarky.

                                          I appreciate and sympathize that you feel like you've been getting the runaround, but when you come to a racing forum, we're going to try to show you the other side of the coin. It is a fact that many trainers will list horses for sale hoping to line up a home when they are done running, which may or may not be immediately. If the trainer is trying to recoup on an investment, he may want to keep the horse running. If the horse starts winning, he may want to keep the horse running. Now you and everyone else who is reading this thread knows that. Again, I'm not at all trying to be mean or contrary. It is what it is.

                                          Have you spoken to the CANTER volunteers about feeling mislead? Perhaps the wording of the listings could be altered. It is in everyone's best interest to have realistic expectations. As I've stated earlier, it frustrates me too when things like this happen because persons who may otherwise offer an excellent home end up walking away.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X