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Doh! I shouldn't have given him Dunkin'

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  • Doh! I shouldn't have given him Dunkin'

    Then again the flip side is that perhaps they can do some kind of corporate sponsorship with the mascot to the slogan of "America [quarter horse] runs on Dunkin' "

    DRF 1-9-09 "All American winner disqualified"

    Stolis Winner has been disqualified from his win in the $1.9 million All-American Futurity for Quarter Horses following a lengthy stewards hearing at Sunland Park on Thursday. The horse tested positive for caffeine following the Sept. 1 race at Ruidoso Downs.

    Heath Taylor, the trainer of Stolis Winner, was also suspended six months and fined $1,500 on Thursday.

    Stewards issued two rulings in the case, one disqualifying Stolis Winner from the purse money, and the other suspending Taylor. Both were appealed to the New Mexico Horse Racing Commission. Taylor and Jerry Windham, the owner and breeder of Stolis Winner, were granted a stay, according to Kenneth Hart, a steward at Sunland.

    Hart said the hearing, which included testimony from Taylor and other witnesses, ran from 9:15 a.m. to 2 p.m. Stewards then deliberated on the case before issuing the two rulings.

    Taylor has denied any wrongdoing since the caffeine positive was made known by the commission last fall. He said at the time that the $1 million purse of the race had already been paid out. Last year, the horse, who has been sidelined with a minor physical setback, also won the Grade 1 Rainbow Futurity and Grade 1 Heritage Place Futurity.
    Last edited by Glimmerglass; Feb. 13, 2009, 12:32 PM. Reason: The original Flickr image of the McDonald's billboard saying "Paying $4 for Coffee is Dumb" is gone , so link removed

  • #2
    Out of morbid curiousity, how much caffeine would you have to give a horse to get a real performance advantage?
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by caffeinated View Post
      Out of morbid curiousity, how much caffeine would you have to give a horse to get a real performance advantage?
      This inquired by a someone named Caffeinated? (Just kidding!)

      See below for the scientific results

      Inside SoCal 1-9-09 "Ruidoso has a venti problem"

      New Mexico racing regulations do not allow any amount of caffeine in race horses, said the Racing Commission's executive director, Julian Luna.

      "I know this, if there was any caffeine, it didn't go through his system," said Windham, a past president of the American Quarter Horse Association.

      "It had to be a contaminant" in the test sample from another source, he said.

      Caffeine has the same effect on horses as it has on humans -- "It jazzes them up," said Susan Vescovo, vice president of the New Mexico Horsemen's Association.

      Racing Commission regulations list caffeine as a Class 2 substance, which has "a high potential for affecting the outcome of a race," according to guidelines on which the regulations are based.
      Perhaps the horse was slipped some M&M's?

      OSU 1998 "Chocolate Treats Can Land Racehorse Trainers In Trouble"

      While caffeine is a central nervous system stimulant in horses, as it is in humans, it would take several grams of caffeine to affect the performance of a 1,000-pound racehorse, according to Sams.

      Researchers at Ohio State University found that three horses fed a vending-pack of M&M’s® chocolate-coated peanuts every day for eight days showed detectable concentrations of the stimulants caffeine and theobromine -- substances that are banned for horses that compete in races.

      The chocolate in a vending machine bag of peanut M&M’s® contains six milligrams of caffeine and about 50 milligrams of theobromine. Both substances stay in a horse’s system longer than a human’s.
      Perhaps that's why the late Ethel Mar's stable Milky Way Farm and their runners did so well

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Glimmerglass View Post
        Researchers at Ohio State University found that three horses fed a vending-pack of M&M’s® chocolate-coated peanuts every day for eight days showed detectable concentrations of the stimulants caffeine and theobromine -- substances that are banned for horses that compete in races.
        You can actually get a horse to eat chocolate?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Glimmerglass View Post
          While caffeine is a central nervous system stimulant in horses, as it is in humans, it would take several grams of caffeine to affect the performance of a 1,000-pound racehorse, according to Sams.
          ...
          The chocolate in a vending machine bag of peanut M&M’s® contains six milligrams of caffeine and about 50 milligrams of theobromine. Both substances stay in a horse’s system longer than a human’s.
          So, doing my bad math, to give them enough to enhance performance, an average sized racehorse would need over 330 vending machine packs of M&Ms.

          Or 20 cups of brewed coffee.

          (using "2" for "several" grams)
          "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

          My CANTER blog.

          Comment


          • #6
            Whoooooa....330 packs of M&Ms would make for one seriously tweaked out horse.

            Horses metabolize caffeine differently than we do, so smaller amounts may have more of an effect.

            According to this recent study, 5 mgs of caffeine administered intravenously was enough to significantly enhance performance.

            This article from theHorse.com references that the caffeine from just 10 peanut M&Ms --not 10 packets, that's 10 M&Ms-- was enough for a horse to test positive.

            Large enough doses of caffeine are actually toxic to horses, so lay off the M&Ms and Dunkin, 'kay?!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jengersnap View Post
              You can actually get a horse to eat chocolate?
              Oh YEAH!!! The late HRH Avery LOFFED chocolate. Preferably Peanut M&Ms. It was relegated to a twice-a-year only treat, though, because it does of course also test for the same stuff under USEF rules. He got it on Christmas and birthdays.
              "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Barnfairy View Post
                Horses metabolize caffeine differently than we do, so smaller amounts may have more of an effect.

                According to this recent study, 5 mgs of caffeine administered intravenously was enough to significantly enhance performance.
                that's 5 mg/kg- assuming that means 5 mg per kg, so for an average sized arabian, um, around 400 kg (per some random website I found via google), that's 2 grams (2000 mg)
                "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                My CANTER blog.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Or say Max strength No Doz which has 200 milligram per tablet, Red Bull at 80 mg of caffeine, 160 mg for Rockstar Zero Carb .....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So safe to say 330 packets of M&Ms --providing you could actually get a horse to eat that many -- would put you well over legal test limit.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      What about beer?

                      Along the same lines is something I've always been curious about - beer and race horses.

                      The oft cited old-school days of Irish and British trainers giving horses a pint of ale is less mentioned today.

                      Although a few horses have been in the US curious oddities with trainers who feed them a routine diet of beer:

                      * Tapit was given a bottle of Guinness plus three eggs daily

                      * Jonathan Sheppard it was disclosed this fall feeds his Breeders Cup F/M Turf winner Forever Together gal a Guinness daily

                      * Breeders Cup turf winner ('85) the late great mare Pebbles also had a craving for a Guinness a day when chilling out with her buddy Come On The Blues

                      So seriously how much impact - and I don't mean intoxication - would a bottle of beer have on an 1,100-lb race horse? And just exactly what benefits are there with an ale? I could see maybe the day of the race it calming some nerves and of course the barley and hops aren't unlike the oats of a horse's diet but what else is in there of benefit?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Guinness, Vanilla Ensure (chocolate will test), M&M's, etc etc.. take your pick.
                        When I first started as a groom I brushed a two year old filly that loved the peanut M&M's. BUT she would not eat the brown ones. I don't know why the guy I worked for at the time didn't enlighten me at the time that that might be a very bad idea. I had no idea.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Glimmerglass View Post
                          Along the same lines is something I've always been curious about - beer and race horses.

                          The oft cited old-school days of Irish and British trainers giving horses a pint of ale is less mentioned today.

                          Although a few horses have been in the US curious oddities with trainers who feed them a routine diet of beer:

                          * Tapit was given a bottle of Guinness plus three eggs daily

                          * Jonathan Sheppard it was disclosed this fall feeds his Breeders Cup F/M Turf winner Forever Together gal a Guinness daily

                          * Breeders Cup turf winner ('85) the late great mare Pebbles also had a craving for a Guinness a day when chilling out with her buddy Come On The Blues

                          So seriously how much impact - and I don't mean intoxication - would a bottle of beer have on an 1,100-lb race horse? And just exactly what benefits are there with an ale? I could see maybe the day of the race it calming some nerves and of course the barley and hops aren't unlike the oats of a horse's diet but what else is in there of benefit?
                          I don't think it has anything to do with the alcoholic content. Something about it supposedly helps with sweating.
                          McDowell Racing Stables

                          Home Away From Home

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                            I don't think it has anything to do with the alcoholic content. Something about it supposedly helps with sweating.
                            Interesting.

                            From that I came across this on the internet for 'non-sweater' horses:

                            Adding coffee grounds to the feed is one old Cajun trick that some claim is effective. Adding beer to the feed is another method that has proven helpful in some cases. "Lite" salt (a combination of regular salt and potassium chloride) also can be added to the horse's daily grain ration to help promote sweating.
                            I don't believe that alcohol in a horse's blood stream would get a horse DQ'd from a race? Or am I incorrect. It certainly isn't a drug which gives an advantage. Don't get me wrong I do recall this violation :Vet Accused of Giving Horses Vodka

                            The University of Pennsylvania has developed a blood test that can detect alcohol in horses, and the University of California-Davis is studying the possible development of a post-race breathalyzer, Waterman said.

                            The blood test is quite expensive, he said, because the technology is relatively new.
                            So why not just a non-alcoholic beer such as a Kaliber?
                            Last edited by Glimmerglass; Jan. 9, 2009, 06:30 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Guinness is often used for horses that have no appetite as well as the horses with anhydrosis.
                              Vodka IV is a pre race thing and it doesn't test. Nothing like running with a hang over and how well they really do run!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                60ccs of absolut in the vein, I can't remember how far out as its been a long time since I have used it. Worked like a charm.
                                McDowell Racing Stables

                                Home Away From Home

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Guinness Dark has a lot of the same micronutrients that are in Source, the feed supp.
                                  "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                                    60ccs of absolut in the vein, I can't remember how far out as its been a long time since I have used it. Worked like a charm.

                                    Exactly! Like a charm!
                                    Who was that guy I think at Turf Paradise that was recently was suspended for his horses blowing over.. kidding... for using "moonshine ish" alcohol but was caught and it was found in his tack room?
                                    I wish they could give me a few cc in the pipe once in a while.. again kidding! sort of..

                                    ETA Potassium chloride has more uses than just for the horse with anhydrosis. We do give it daily to very normally sweating horses. I have only actually run into one non sweater by Broken Vow. He was sent to a cooler climate and it seemed to kick start the sweating.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                                      60ccs of absolut in the vein, I can't remember how far out as its been a long time since I have used it. Worked like a charm.
                                      The cheap stuff works well too Laurie...

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I'm sure the cheap stuff would work but it was actually the vet that gave it and he said it was free of impurities and therefore safer. I did ask if he could give me some as well but he didn't want to break into his stash unnecessarily!
                                        McDowell Racing Stables

                                        Home Away From Home

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