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Historical TB male line question

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  • #21
    Fascinating discussion.

    If so many sire lines have faded out/ended, what (if any) sire lines are prepotent in today's racing pedigrees?

    And, is there any way, other than starting with modern stallions and tracing back their tail male lines, to see a clear picture of what is being discussed in this thread?
    "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

    Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump


    • #22
      Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post
      Fascinating discussion.

      If so many sire lines have faded out/ended, what (if any) sire lines are prepotent in today's racing pedigrees?

      And, is there any way, other than starting with modern stallions and tracing back their tail male lines, to see a clear picture of what is being discussed in this thread?
      Northern Dancer has just about swamped breeding in the UK/ IRE. And if you look at Danzig/Danehill/Sadler's Well/Fairy King in Australia, they provided about 75% of the active sires last time I researched Australian stallions. Mr. P hasn't got nearly as much representation overseas as he did/does here, and I'm not sure that Mr. P isn't or hasn't faded in tail male. Except for Sadler's Wells, the chaser lines are very different. France and Germany, as usual, seem to go in their own direction, but France still has a very heavy No. Dancer component. The other racing nations like Japan, India, Korea, Turkey, etc.

      Since the retirements of Storm Cat and AP Indy, there doesn't seem to be a truly dominant male in the US.
      Last edited by vineyridge; Mar. 21, 2013, 06:39 PM.
      "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
      Thread killer Extraordinaire


      • #23
        Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
        Mr. P hasn't got nearly as much representation overseas as he did/does here, and I'm not sure that Mr. P isn't or hasn't faded in tail male.

        Since the retirements of Storm Cat and AP Indy, there doesn't seem to be a truly dominant male in the US.
        Kingmambo, by Mr P, seemed to be somewhat popular with Europeans. Ashford bought/bred quite a few Kingmambos, including Henrythenavigator and Thewayyouare who did most of their racing in England and Ireland. Raven's Pass, by Elusive Quality (Gone West/Mr P) stands in Ireland. It's not extinct, just more rare than here. Also, I forgot about Machiavellian (sire of Street Cry), a useful son of Mr P who stood his entire career at Darley's stud in Newmarket.

        I don't think you'll see a truly dominant sire in the US as much anymore... economic times are different, buyers are more selective, and breeders need value as much as star power. It's more difficult for breeders to make their stud fees back, so fewer are taking the risk to breed to a high dollar stallion; stud fees are getting more competitive as farms try to fill their books. The great mares are getting spread out a bit more, instead of focused to a couple select stallions...so more stallions are proving competitive with their runners. Actually pretty healthy, I think, at least for the gene pool.
        Last edited by EventerAJ; Mar. 21, 2013, 11:01 PM. Reason: Forgot about Street Cry
        “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
        ? Albert Einstein



        • #24
          Mr. P (and Indy for that matter) never caught on with Euros as they were not not that great as turf sires. KIngmambo was an excpetion beingout of the great Miesque. Mr. P's line is still seen in top stallions like Distorted Humor, who also has ND on the bottom via is broodmare sire Danzig.
          The current leading sires for 2013 are Awesome Again (Northern Dancer sireline) Malibu Moon (Bold Ruler via AP Indy) Tapit (Bold Ruler via AP Indy through Pulpit) Giant's Causeway (Storm Cat) and Unridled's Son (Mr. Prospector sireline.)
          You don't see a non Mr P, Indy or Northern Dancer sire on the General list until the late Indian Charlie at #11. (He's Nasrullah through Caro) and then down to #20 for Tiznow (In Reality sireline) who I'd love to see sire an important sire to keep that Man O' War (and thus Godolphin line) alive.
          F O.B
          Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
          Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique