• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

2013 Kentucky Derby 139th Edition: congrats to Orb (Shug, Joel, Phipps/Janney)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by Lamb Chop View Post
    Cut-and-paste work of a 4th grader? Ick.
    Done by the same 4th grader that selected the qualifiers.
    But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Glimmerglass View Post
      Egads the just released official 2013 Kentucky Derby 139th logo couldn't look any more woefully inadequate.
      Yeah, that's pretty terrible.

      Here, I made a new one. I think this more accurately reflects the current modus operandi in the CDI offices.

      Whaddya guys think?
      bar.ka think u al.l. susp.ect
      free bar.ka and tidy rabbit

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Rubyfree View Post
        Yeah, that's pretty terrible.

        Here, I made a new one. I think this more accurately reflects the current modus operandi in the CDI offices.

        Whaddya guys think?
        Truth in advertising!!
        But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #64
          And the early Las Vegas 2013 Derby favorite is already being determined - now that is uber fast! Drum roll please .... @ 30-1 it's Uncaptured

          “I made Uncaptured the favorite because I was really impressed by what I’ve seen,” said Avello of the Mark Casse trainee with three stakes wins at Woodbine. “We didn’t take any big bets on him, so many other bettors aren’t as sure he’ll transfer his form to the dirt, or maybe I set the odds too low. If no one bets him at 30-1, I’ll raise him.”
          In case anyone was wondering about how betting odds work with a casino ...

          What does it take for Avello to move a number? He said he’s letting customers bet “to win $20,000.” So, if you want to bet a horse at 100-1, you can bet up to $200 before he’ll move the line (and let you bet again if you accept the adjusted price). Avello said he’ll take $100 no matter the price, so a horse at 300-1 could put his exposure at $30,000.

          Avello said he’s already on the hook for $80,000 on yet another Pletcher trainee, Archwarrior, who opened at 150-1 and was bet all the way down to 50-1 on the first day.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by ivy62 View Post
            Just because a lot of fillies have not won others did run.. Lets be hypothetical... Since Rachel Alexandra only ran against fillies should she have not been allowed to try the derby? I know she did not but this is hypothetical. Honestly, if Jesse Jackson had bought hre before the Oaks who knows what he would have done. Her entire campaign up until then was all against her own sex...
            [WARNING: Pedantic Nonsense Follows]
            Just as well; 10f wasn't her distance.
            **********
            Starts with an 'S,' ends with a 'T.' You figure it out.

            **********
            "Houston, Tranquility Base here, picking up where we left off ..."

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #66
              No change from what was reported before in this thread but 2014 is the earliest that Hawthorne and Illinois Derby might get added to the Derby point eligible races.

              Courier Journal 9-22-12 "Hawthorne can only look to 2014 for Illinois Derby’s inclusion in Kentucky Derby series"

              Carey said the Chicago track offered [to Churchill Downs] to move the Illinois Derby into March, where it might be grouped with 50-point races like the Tampa Bay Derby, Risen Star, Spiral and Sunland Park Derby.

              “We were even willing to change the date into the March time frame, which doesn’t make any financial sense for us to do,” said Carey, who said Churchill suggested the move. “…. They said, ‘If you guys come back with some ideas, we would take a look at it for 2013.’ We provided those to them, and they just came back and said, ‘Nope. Good luck in ’13 and maybe we’ll see you in ’14.’”

              Carey said the Illinois Derby now will try to entice horses who might already have qualified on points and whose connections are looking for a softer final prep than the Grade I races, as well as those targeting the Preakness or Belmont.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #67
                I guess this somewhat makes this the defacto 2013 Kentucky Derby thread ...

                (pdf) As of 9-30-2012 the Wynn Vegas 2013 Derby Odds

                The favorite is now a tie @ 30-1 ... Canadian-bred and based runner Uncaptured with a record of 4 4-0-0. Although he may be a polytrack specialist.

                And moving alongside is Archwarrior (as cited in the Saratoga thread 'the second coming of Seattle Slew' which was rather overhyped thus far) is also 30-1 and will be seen next most likely up against the 2nd wagering favorite ....

                Shanghai Bobby is at 35-1 and he'll run next October 6th in the Grade 1, $400,000 Champagne Stakes at Belmont against Archwarrior

                Next up at 40-1 is Goldencents. Who? The Cali based runner is 1-0 with a 7-length win at DelMar in a maiden on Sep 2nd. Looks like Jimmy "The Hat" (or some playa out there) put a lot of action on him to drop from 125-1 to the 40-1

                Oddly Kauai Katie (f) is listed at 200-1!! Dreaming of Julia (f) at 55-1. I suppose the future book folks are looking at the new Derby entry rules and suspecting its even less likely a filly will gain eligibility into the Kentucky Derby.

                I know each year we all see fillies who are wowing folks because they mature earlier but Kauai Katie has sizzled. For those who haven't followed her:

                Video - her Keeneland auction, Sep 2011 yearling Hip # 1043 (sold $90k)

                Video - her maiden at Saratoga 7-20-12

                Video - her G2 debut in the Adirondack at Spa 8-12-12

                Video - her G2 followup in the Matron at Belmont 9-30-12

                $90k auction price and earnings after 3-0 record a cool $288,000 thus far with two blacktype earning and crushing victories

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #68
                  As of today (10/3/12) there are just 8 horses with Derby points. Two races thus far as qualifiers 1 in the US and 1 in Europe with the first four finishers, in each respective race, getting points.

                  Horse - (Points) - Owner - (Trainer)
                  Power Broker - (10) - Gary and Mary West - ( Bob Baffert)
                  Steeler (IRE) - (10) - Sheikh Mo - (Mark Johnston
                  Know More - (4) - Reddam Racing LLC - (Doug O'Neill)
                  Artigiano - (4) - Godolphin - (Mahmood Al Zarooni)
                  Capo Bastone - (2) - Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners - (John Sadler)
                  Al-Waab (IRE) - (2) - Mubarak Al Naemi - (Sir Henry Cecil)
                  Carving - (1) - Baffert and Miller - (Bob Baffert)
                  Birdman (IRE) - (1) Anthony Hogarth - (David Simcock)
                  Power Broker (video) just won the Grade 1 $250,000 FrontRunner Stakes (nee Norfolk Stakes) at Santa Anita Park on September 29, 2012. He was a $360,000 purchase at the 2011 Keeneland September yearling sale.

                  Carving was purchased by skiier Bode Miller - namesake of Bob's on in partnership with Jill Baffert for $55,000. He earned the 1-Derby point for his 4th place finish in that same FrontRunner stakes as Power Broker.

                  Don't expect Euro-based Steeler (IRE) to be in Louisville in May:

                  By finishing [Group 2 Royal Lodge Stakes at Newmarket at one mile] in 1:35.67, Steeler set a new course record for a juvenile. Sportinglife.com reports that he bettered the old mark for his age group of 1:35.70 set by Forward Move in 2004.

                  "[Steeler] will come into his own next year and could be a Derby horse," Fallon concluded, but meaning the Group 1 Derby at Epsom, not Churchill Downs.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Thanks for posting these, GG.

                    But I have to say, that after reading all of this, and feeling the constraints of the points only for particular races, the system has definitely put a damper on getting psyched for the Derby trail.

                    I hope CD gets some kind of comeuppance and rethinks the system for the next year.
                    But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Glimmerglass View Post
                      Carving was purchased by skiier Bode Miller - namesake of Bob's on in partnership with Jill Baffert for $55,000. He earned the 1-Derby point for his 4th place finish in that same FrontRunner stakes as Power Broker.
                      It's a strange world where active Olympic athletes have enough money to buy a race horse!
                      If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #71
                        Originally posted by poltroon View Post
                        It's a strange world where active Olympic athletes have enough money to buy a race horse!
                        True.

                        Although Bode isn't exactly working at the Safeway bagging groceries when he's not skiing. Per Forbes back in 2/10/2010 earned for 2009 an estimated $1.3 million. Keep in mind he only owns a part of the $55,000 purchase price of the horse. So maybe Jill put in $40k and he just $15k. Thus far they've made money on the purchase.

                        Bode is now engaged to professional volleyball player Morgan Beck so in the future they'll have two paychecks in the household to pay for horses

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #72
                          The Breeders' Cup Juvenile this year, as noted before, will not allow for runners to be administered lasix. One of the noted races this weekend which will most certainly confirm a few runners for going on to the BC JV and garner points towards the Kentucky Derby (which has no lasix ban) is the: G1 Foxwoods Champagne Stakes.

                          The $400,000 purses race has a field of seven. Only two of which will be running without lasix: Chief Havoc and Fortify.

                          What of say Shanghai Bobby and Archwarrior (both to be so administered for the Belmont Park race) - will they skip the Breeders' Cup? Nada. Trainer Todd Pletcher says that's too much money to leave on the table.

                          “If we had a problematic bleeder, it might mean that you wouldn’t go,” Pletcher said. “Right now, the 2-year-olds that we’re dealing with, none of them I would classify as problematic bleeders. I think we will continue to manage them the way that we normally do and then on race day we hope they run well without Lasix.”

                          “Personally, it doesn’t bother me, I can’t speak for all my owners,” said Pletcher, who won the Juvenile in 2010 with Uncle Mo. “What are your choices? If you have Shanghai Bobby or Archwarrior or somebody that wins the Champagne, by deciding not to go to California you’re giving up the opportunity to run in a $2 million race, you’re giving up the opportunity to be champion 2-year-old to run in the Remsen for $200,000? It’s the way it’s set up, it’s not great, but it is what it is. Play or don’t play.”
                          In terms of points for the Derby eligibility:

                          Champagne: 10-points W || 4-points P || 2-points S || 1-point for 4th

                          With a field of just 7 runners almost everyone gets something

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #73
                            From the Grade 1, $400,000 Champagne Stakes at Belmont there wasn't much of a race ... the initial overblown hype of Archwarrior being 'the next Seattle Slew' isn't there to date. It was Shanghai Bobby dispatching the field without being asked for anything.

                            Video: G1 Champagne Stakes (Oct 6, 2012

                            (Rosie, with props to her, won two Grade 1 races yesterday!)

                            Derby points added the following: Shanghai Bobby, 10; Goldencents, 4; Fortify, 2; and Archwarrior, 1.

                            As suggested before Pletcher would ship 'Bobby' to Santa Anita for the BC JV but that actually is a bit less likely now. Bobby's owner remarked that: I was a believer then, and I probably am still, that the horses that run in the 2-year-old Breeders’ Cup race don’t come back,” Wolf said.

                            Also Shanghai Bobby’s victory pushed Pletcher past Bobby Frankel for second on the all-time [trainer's] earnings list. At day’s end, Pletcher had $228,168,465 in purse earnings, surpassing Frankel’s second-place mark of $227,912,022. D. Wayne Lukas, Pletcher’s former boss, is the all-time leader with $260 million.
                            On the "girls" side the Frizette Stakes was decimated with a horse cast in the stall -Roveing Patrol - resulting in her being scratched along with another. The field already was very small. So just four horses broke from the gate but damn it was a great match race between the two heavyweights - Dreaming of Julia and My Happy Face.

                            My Happy Face won her maiden at the Spa by 21 1/4-lengths, where as Dreaming of Julia won her two prior by a combined 26+ lengths. It couldn't have been a better two dueling at the stretch.

                            It's worth watching ...

                            Video: Oct 6, 2010 Grade 1, $400,000 Frizette Stakes

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #74
                              Suggestive comments with Shangai Bobby skipping the party at Sanita Anita next month now revoked - 10-8/-12 Starlight Racing says 'Bobby' will go to the BC JV

                              Current points system for the Kentucky Derby (sub-ranked by earnings)
                              October 8, 2012
                              Rank. Horse. [Derby Points] Earnings
                              1. Shanghai Bobby. [10] $571,000
                              2. Joha. [10] $368,767
                              3. Power Broker. [10] $150,000
                              4. Steeler. [10] $132,849
                              5. Dynamic Sky. [4] $201,668
                              6. Know More. [4] $200,000
                              7. Goldencents. [4] $80,000
                              8. Artigiano.[4] $63,564
                              9. Java's War. [2] $130,000
                              10. Fortify [2] $100,000
                              11. Capo Bastone. [2] $48,000
                              12. Al Waab. [2] $25,306
                              13. Pataky Kid. [1] $107,300
                              14. Carving. [1] $43,500
                              15. Birdman. [1] $43,031
                              16. Archwarrior [1] $20,000

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #75
                                The latest new Vegas odds are out and reflect the success (and losses) of others: (pdf) Wynn|Encore Vegas - 2013 Derby odds as of October 8, 2012

                                As noted by Jennie Reese/Courier Journal, a horse owned by a Rick Pitino partnership, having broken his maiden at Santa Anita, appeared on the odds board.

                                Avare, who broke his maiden at a mile on turf Saturday at Santa Anita, debuts in Johnny Avello’s Kentucky Derby 139 odds at 250-1. Trained by 2012 Kentucky Derby winner Doug O’Neill, he’s owned by a partnership that includes University of Louisville basketball coach Rick Pitino. And he’s named for Rick Pitino’s long-time financial advisor Rick Avare.
                                * Uncaptured went from 30-1 to 60-1 after losing Woodbine’s Grey Stakes.
                                * Archwarrior is now at 40-1 after finishing fourth in the Champagne.
                                * Shanghai Bobby, Champagne winner, is the lowest at 20-1
                                * Carving, the Bode Miller/Jill Baffert owned horse, went up from 150-1 to now 175-1

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #76
                                  Latest Wynn|Encore Sports Book odds for the 2013 Derby as Nov 5, 2012. As expected BC JV winner Shanghai Bobby drops to just 11-1 odds. No other horse that close to him.

                                  An interesting low odd horse that had a decent (but nothing "wow" about) maiden win on Oct 20th: Z Big Apple now at 20-1

                                  Right now with the Derby Points it's Shanghai Bobby with of them 20 and the other 19-point holders at 10-or-less. BC JV runner up, in a good fight, He's Had Enough sits with in a multi-tied position with just 4-points along with the 3rd place BC JV finisher, Capo Bastone, also with 4-points.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #77
                                    LA Times: Breeders' Cup crowd catches a much-needed rising star

                                    Racing experts said that with Napravnik's stock rising, it's not a given she'll be back on Shanghai Bobby if a stronger entry emerges by Derby day.

                                    "Todd's never asked me to take her off [Shanghai Bobby], and it sounds like she likes the horse," owner Jack Wolf said.

                                    To that, Napravnik cracked: "Oh, you didn't get the bill."

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #78
                                      A nice victory by the horse owned by downhill skiing champ Bode Miller (and co-owned with Jill Baffert) - Carving - who may be a Derby road contender: (video) $100k Real Quiet Satkes at Hollywood Park at 1 1/16-mi

                                      The Real Quiet is a prep for the Grade 1, $750,000 CashCall Futurity on Dec. 15. Baffert said Carving likely would be one of several runners he has in the race. “I’m going to run as many as I can,” he said. “I’ll try to load the gate up.”

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Yo Rubyfree

                                        Originally posted by Rubyfree View Post
                                        Yeah, that's pretty terrible.

                                        Here, I made a new one. I think this more accurately reflects the current modus operandi in the CDI offices.

                                        Whaddya guys think?
                                        I'll buy the alternative t-shirt if you have any made up!

                                        Hallie

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          #80
                                          Maybe I haven't paid attention to the price of onsite tickets for the Oaks & Derby - and yes these are new, special seating sections - however this struck me as expensive:

                                          The Louisville track is introducing a new seating and Section 110 hospitality venue for the 2013 Derby and the Oaks that offers the historic track's first stadium-type seating, hospitality highlighted by limitless food and drink, and a first-turn clubhouse location that provides the track's most breathtaking view of its iconic Twin Spires.

                                          Kentucky Derby and Oaks fans who have registered online at CD/tickets for the opportunity to purchase tickets to the 2013 renewals of those events at Churchill Downs will be contacted via e-mail the morning of Nov. 14 with details of the online offering of more than 3,000 first-turn trackside seats.

                                          Pricing for the two-day ticket package for Kentucky Derby and Oaks will range from $698 for uncovered seats to $799 for seats located under cover.
                                          For free you can watch the Churchill Downs backside from 1976 (thanks to Equidaily for spying it) with the Kentucky PBS video release on-line: (video) The Backside from KET (26 minutes):

                                          A visit to the backside of Churchill Downs—the stable area where the jockeys, trainers, and exercisers work—from 1976.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X