• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Beyer on slots

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Beyer on slots

    Not normally a big Andy fan, but he hit the ball out of the park with this one.


    Those numbers for Presque Isle are insane, an average daily handle of $35k and average purses of over $200k a day. How is that not welfare for horse owners?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Drvmb1ggl3 View Post
    Not normally a big Andy fan, but he hit the ball out of the park with this one.


    Those numbers for Presque Isle are insane, an average daily handle of $35k and average purses of over $200k a day. How is that not welfare for horse owners?
    "Debbie Howells, Director of Racing, for Presque Isle Downs stated that handle from full card simulcast for July 2011 was $834K compared to $920K in 2010 for a decrease of 9.4%.

    Handle for 20 days of live racing during the month of July 2011 was $8.5M compared to $10M in July of 2010;
    showing a decrease of 15.23%.

    Total handle shows an increase of 5% with two days less racing in 2011."

    quote from:http://www.agriculture.state.pa.us/p...2008-11-11.pdf


    • Original Poster


      Presque Isle Downs reported a total handle of $31,425,213 for its 101-day meet that ended Sept. 28, a stand that was 76 days longer than the track’s inaugural meet last year.

      Off-track wagering was $27,473,240 while on-track handle was $3,951,973 for the 800 races during the meet, which kicked off May 9. Purse distribution was reported at $22.29 million.

      $22.9m in purses for $31.4m wagered.
      That's 66c paid out for every $1 wagered. If takeout is 20%, and let's say that 10% of that goes back into purses (the average national figure returned to purses is actually more like 7-8%, but we'll be generous here), then the amount of handle that went to purses is $3.4m. So the purses at Presque would have been subsidized to the tune of $19 million or so, or about 85% of purses come from slot money. In reality it may be closer to 90%.
      Crazy money, false economics.


      • #4
        Originally posted by Drvmb1ggl3 View Post
        Crazy money, false economics.
        I'm not sure what you mean by false economics. If they didn't build the track,they couldn't have the slots. They were well aware that the track would not support itself with only the handle.

        The way things are moving now,the low level slot tracks will cease to be subsidized and they will slowly fade away as they were doing before the slots.

        The upper level,slots or not,will continue on just fine. NYRA is taking notes from Woodbine and sinking more dollars into research and promotion of their product.


        • Original Poster

          Originally posted by lifesabreeze View Post
          I'm not sure what you mean by false economics. If they didn't build the track,they couldn't have the slots.
          Only because of strange laws and the racing lobby having the state legislature by the short and curlies. Seems like in a real free market you would be able to build a casino without having to put it in a racetrack and then spend a chuck of your profits subsidizing a completely separate industry.

          The economics of the whole racing set up in a slot subsidized state is completely false. It reminds me of those old Eastern European communist economies where the government was pumping huge amounts of money into big bloated industries that were hemorrhaging money. Normally if a business is not profitable, it downsizes or goes out of business.


          • #6
            They needed to by-pass the anti-gambling groups. When slots were first going in,they were put into racetracks so they could justify them by saying there already was gambling at those sites.