• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

AP article today on race track deaths

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • AP article today on race track deaths

    I'm a lurker here -- usually I'm on the Driving forum. For some time I've been following discussions on this board regarding race track safety, and I'd be interested in your thoughts on this article, which appeared in newspapers all over the country. In some it was in the sports section; in our local Clarion Ledger it was in the A section:

    AP: 5,000 horse deaths since 2003
    Associated Press
    Article Launched: 06/15/2008 01:37:15 AM PDT


    LEXINGTON, Ky. - Thoroughbred racetracks in the United States reported more than three horse deaths a day last year and 5,000 since 2003, and the vast majority were put down after suffering devastating injuries on the track, according to an Associated Press survey.

    Countless other deaths went unreported because of lax record-keeping, the AP found in the broadest such review to date.

    The catastrophic breakdown of filly Eight Belles at the Kentucky Derby last month made the fragility of a half-ton horse vivid for the millions watching, but the AP found that such injuries occur regularly in every racing state. Tracks in California and New York, which rank first and sixth in thoroughbred races, combine to average more than one thoroughbred death for every day of the year.

    Questions about breeding, medication, synthetic surfaces vs. dirt and other safety issues have dogged the industry for some time, and a congressional panel has asked key players in the sport to testify this week about its direction, particularly the influence of steroids.

    The AP compiled its figures from responses to open-records inquiries sent to the organizations that govern the sport in the 29 states identified by Equibase Co., a clearinghouse for race results, as having had at least 1,000 thoroughbreds start a race last year. Arkansas, Michigan and Nebraska said their organizations don't track fatalities, and only one of Florida's three main thoroughbred tracks provided numbers.

    There were wide differences among the other states in what types of deaths are monitored and how far back records go.
    "Nobody really knows how big of a problem it is," said Rick Arthur, California's equine medical director. "They just know it's a big problem."

    California officials became alarmed in 2005 when the number of thoroughbred racing deaths spiked by nearly 50 percent from just two years earlier. Last year, 314 horses - 261 of them thoroughbreds - died at California's tracks, including those hurt in training or barn accidents, and a few that suffered other injuries or medical complications.

    "Just seeing the totals and the recurrent theme, it's eye-opening," said Bon Smith, assistant director of the California Horse Racing Board.

    Beginning this year, California has mandated that all its major tracks replace their dirt surface with a synthetic mixture found in some studies to be safer for horses and jockeys.

    While California's thoroughbred fatalities are nearly triple those reported by any other state, its warm weather and bounty of tracks make it the nation's busiest racing state. And it has received high praise across the industry for the way it tracks deaths; every death that occurs on the public grounds of a California racetrack is recorded in detail, largely through veterinary reports.

    Hall of Fame trainer D. Wayne Lukas said the sport gets a bad rap for what he believes it does best - take care of the animals.

    "There isn't a trainer worth his salt that doesn't look into this 24 hours a day," Lukas said. "I'll guarantee you that if any one of those purists who feel like it's an abusive sport would spend two weeks in my barn, they'd walk away a different person and have a greater appreciation for the care. Animals don't have a say in it, but when they get to this level, they have a pretty good deal going."

  • #2
    I was flamed for saying this

    thank you for posting this, I read it about 2 hours ago. When 8 Belles died, I reiterated what I had seen for years, and I was flamed by all of the denial experts, who said these breakdowns did not occur!!! It's like the politicians who think that if they keep denying things, it will become truth.
    The real truth is that more horses die daily that the "3 a day reported deaths", because some break down in training, and some make it back to the barn and are quietly put down. and don't even think of the ones, crippled or not, that get shipped to new holland and elsewhere.
    and please note that the ap article mentioned "devastating injuries", which I was also flamed for stating.
    I love racing, but I want sound horses raced w/o drugs and living long lives, and then being rehomed if they aren't big studs or broodmares (and the broodmares rehomed when they are barren instead of being "filly mignon").
    This means NOT breeding so many inferior horses, and letting horses mature, and gasp, running them over grass and for distance, not for speed.
    of course, the denials will start here.
    Like I said after 8 Belles, this happens daily at the track. more than 3x a day, as the ap investigation states.
    Last edited by cloudyandcallie; Jun. 15, 2008, 12:50 PM. Reason: oops mature not manure

    Comment


    • #3
      I would liike to have more information, like what percentage that is from all the horse running each day.

      I know, I know, ANY death is terrible, but we drive cars every day and some people won't come home.
      There are x number of fatal wrecks every day, not even counting the injuries.

      Life is risky and we can either live it and do our best or sit tight and not move and hope the sky won't fall.

      I was involved in racing for some 12 years, on and off and happen to hear of a fatal breakdown that happened to someone as scary and very rare, but never knew one first hand, so it is not THAT common, or it was not until 1984, when we quit racing.

      We need to know more, if it is statistically part of life, or if there is a problem that can be adressed by changing some we do.

      What I mean is that maybe x number of the general polulation of horses do die each day also from all kinds of causes, or other activities other than racing and those figures of track deaths are part of what happens when you are alive and doing anything, not just because a horse was running in a race.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MySparrow View Post
        The catastrophic breakdown of filly Eight Belles at the Kentucky Derby last month made the fragility of a half-ton horse vivid for the millions watching, but the AP found that such injuries occur regularly in every racing state. Tracks in California and New York, which rank first and sixth in thoroughbred races, combine to average more than one thoroughbred death for every day of the year.
        I'd question these figures but will agree that it is too much. California especially due to their having dumbed down the shoeing standards to become licensed there has caused a lot of this.
        Questions about breeding, medication, synthetic surfaces vs. dirt and other safety issues have dogged the industry for some time, and a congressional panel has asked key players in the sport to testify this week about its direction, particularly the influence of steroids.
        This is most welcome and long overdue


        California officials became alarmed in 2005 when the number of thoroughbred racing deaths spiked by nearly 50 percent from just two years earlier. Last year, 314 horses - 261 of them thoroughbreds - died at California's tracks, including those hurt in training or barn accidents, and a few that suffered other injuries or medical complications.
        Bad shoeing due to lowered standards, see above. Major cause.
        "Just seeing the totals and the recurrent theme, it's eye-opening," said Bon Smith, assistant director of the California Horse Racing Board.
        Nobody's fault but their own. Chickens are coming home to roost.
        Beginning this year, California has mandated that all its major tracks replace their dirt surface with a synthetic mixture found in some studies to be safer for horses and jockeys.
        Has not done anything. Is an expensive failure but made a lot of money for people with a financial interest in the stuff.

        Hall of Fame trainer D. Wayne Lukas said the sport gets a bad rap for what he believes it does best - take care of the animals.

        "There isn't a trainer worth his salt that doesn't look into this 24 hours a day," Lukas said. "I'll guarantee you that if any one of those purists who feel like it's an abusive sport would spend two weeks in my barn, they'd walk away a different person and have a greater appreciation for the care. Animals don't have a say in it, but when they get to this level, they have a pretty good deal going."
        This is the most laughable of all. DEEWayne commenting about this?
        Do we really want to keep score of how many he's killed? I'd bet California's high numbers are contributed to by his being there.

        The AP really could have found a better guy to talk to.
        George

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bluey View Post
          I would liike to have more information, like what percentage that is from all the horse running each day.
          Around 2 per 1000 starts is what the catastrophic breakdown rate is estimated to be for US racing.
          There were over 400,000 starts in the US in 2006. So there are over 1000 starts a day on average.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Drvmb1ggl3 View Post
            Around 2 per 1000 starts is what the catastrophic breakdown rate is estimated to be for US racing.
            There were over 400,000 starts in the US in 2006. So there are over 1000 starts a day on average.
            Problem being that the most horrific tend to be to popular horses in graded stakes races on national TV in front of millions of people.

            You'll seldom see an old claimer at some county fair do this. Reason being, the unfortunate fact that any horse who can run fast enough to hurt themselves usually will.
            George

            Comment


            • #7
              I guess I'm a denial expert weighing in... But, although 3/day sounds like a lot, how does that compare with other disciplines and just horses in the pasture?

              And, yeah, Lukas isn't maybe the best person to interview, but he certainly makes a good point!

              Back to the denial thing... I'm not saying injuries don't happen and we should be happy with the status quo. What I'm saying is: don't take everything you read at face value; knee jerk reactions to articles like this is how Santa Anita got in it's trouble; and, the big one - it's easy to talk about this stuff, but when you see all the facts it's harder to come up with a solution.

              Comment


              • #8
                Check this one out
                http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2007/11...racing-on.html

                Presque Isle Downs had similar results upon opening. So much for this stuff being the answer to anybody's prayers.

                No trainer I've talked to wants to run their horses on the stuff.
                George

                Comment


                • #9
                  www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HOR/US-25A.doc

                  This is an extensive study that was paid for by the Australian government on ' Wastage in the Australian Thoroughbred Racing Industry' published 10 years ago.
                  Perhaps a similar study is overdue in the USA?
                  Are you feeding your horse like a cow? www.safergrass.org

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JHUshoer20 View Post
                    Problem being that the most horrific tend to be to popular horses in graded stakes races on national TV in front of millions of people.

                    You'll seldom see an old claimer at some county fair do this. Reason being, the unfortunate fact that any horse who can run fast enough to hurt themselves usually will.
                    George
                    I couldn't disagree with this statement anymore than I already do. I have seen nights at both Charles Town and Penn National where 4 horses broke down in dramatic fashion. That is the supposed allotment for the entire country.
                    The perception may be that it only happens in big races that are on tv because those are the only races the majority of the public ever sees.
                    McDowell Racing Stables

                    Home Away From Home

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Agree with Laurie here. Two at Charles Town this week broke down.

                      Whats scary about that number is that it doesn't count the morning breakdowns, it doesn't include all tracks, and it certainly doesn't include the tracks that don't even keep statistics on breakdowns.

                      Lets also not forget the horses who limp off the track and get shoved in the kill pens. Shouldn't they count too?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                        I couldn't disagree with this statement anymore than I already do. I have seen nights at both Charles Town and Penn National where 4 horses broke down in dramatic fashion. That is the supposed allotment for the entire country.
                        The perception may be that it only happens in big races that are on tv because those are the only races the majority of the public ever sees.
                        Ok Laurie,
                        You've already heard what I blame it on. How about you? You're a trainer. What do you attribute this to?
                        George

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                          I couldn't disagree with this statement anymore than I already do. I have seen nights at both Charles Town and Penn National where 4 horses broke down in dramatic fashion. That is the supposed allotment for the entire country.
                          The perception may be that it only happens in big races that are on tv because those are the only races the majority of the public ever sees.
                          I agree with this completely. As previously posted, I attended my first live TB race at Suffolk Downs on 6/1/08 and witnessed a catastrophic breakdown in the third race just before the finish line that required immediate euthanization. I'm talking near complete amputation of a front leg. This was a three year old filly running her first race. Apparently, starting them later isn't the answer. She was also running on grass, so turf won't save them either.

                          Almost as disheartening were the fans. Lots of glue factory jokes and such. One guy was swearing his head off because he lost money on the race (the filly had been the favorite) and called the poor horse a stupid f-in nag as she struggled to stand on three legs. I can't think of any other equestrian sport where a fatally injured horse would be ridiculed or made the butt of jokes. Can you?

                          Then too, only one poster here even commented on the breakdown. The filly, Malaika (Stravinsky x Cita My Dear by Kris S), wasn't famous so who cares? The AP article is right; $hit like this happens every day and very few in the industry appear to give a damn.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Katy Watts View Post
                            www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HOR/US-25A.doc

                            This is an extensive study that was paid for by the Australian government on ' Wastage in the Australian Thoroughbred Racing Industry' published 10 years ago.
                            Perhaps a similar study is overdue in the USA?
                            Makes me wish Jack Mac was here
                            George

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Does anyone think that the fact that these breakdowns are making it into the mainstream press will make a difference?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by rcloisonne View Post
                                I agree with this completely. As previously posted, I attended my first live TB race at Suffolk Downs on 6/1/08 and witnessed a catastrophic breakdown in the third race just before the finish line that required immediate euthanization. I'm talking near complete amputation of a front leg. This was a three year old filly running her first race. Apparently, starting them later isn't the answer. She was also running on grass, so turf won't save them either.

                                Almost as disheartening were the fans. Lots of glue factory jokes and such. One guy was swearing his head off because he lost money on the race (the filly had been the favorite) and called the poor horse a stupid f-in nag as she struggled to stand on three legs. I can't think of any other equestrian sport where a fatally injured horse would be ridiculed or made the butt of jokes. Can you?

                                Then too, only one poster here even commented on the breakdown. The filly, Malaika (Stravinsky x Cita My Dear by Kris S), wasn't famous so who cares? The AP article is right; $hit like this happens every day and very few in the industry appear to give a damn.
                                All things considered try not to think of Sufferin' Downs as a typical track
                                George

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by MySparrow View Post
                                  Does anyone think that the fact that these breakdowns are making it into the mainstream press will make a difference?
                                  Wishful thinking. I do however welcome the exposure of the abuse of drugs. However, I'm not optimistic that that won't blow over as well.
                                  George

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    NY Times article with very different numbers
                                    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/sp...ts&oref=slogin

                                    Interesting how different the numbers are. Also interesting that some racing jurisdictions do not even record on track breakdowns.
                                    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                    Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by JHUshoer20 View Post
                                      Ok Laurie,
                                      You've already heard what I blame it on. How about you? You're a trainer. What do you attribute this to?
                                      George
                                      99% is from assholes running a dead sore horse hoping he will make it around one last time. The rest falls into the "shit happens" category.
                                      McDowell Racing Stables

                                      Home Away From Home

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by rcloisonne View Post
                                        Then too, only one poster here even commented on the breakdown. The filly, Malaika (Stravinsky x Cita My Dear by Kris S), wasn't famous so who cares? The AP article is right; $hit like this happens every day and very few in the industry appear to give a damn.
                                        That is about as correct as saying that eventers couldn't care less about the loss of Teddy, Frodo Baggins, or The Quiet Man.
                                        www.laurienberenson.com

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X