• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Breaking News - Big Brown's Slight Foot Injury?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Original Poster

    Speaking of terminology

    Some more confusing terminology.
    (please correct me if I'm wrong - these were the terms some years ago, and they may have changed them)

    In the Tb world there is no such thing as a 'true black' horse. True black in any breed is rare.

    Agreed.
    But; there is such a thing as a fading black horse. Some breeds sometimes call this color black-bay. It is a separate color from brown and a separate color from dark bay.
    A fading black looks black and has no tan mealy color behind nostrils or flanks-belly area (that would make them brown). In the summer they fade to a purplish brown, except legs - examples of this would be Sunday Silence or War Emblem but not Ruffian, who was a dark brown. Seattle Slew was probably a dark bay or medium brown.

    The Tb world does not recognize the 'fading black' gene, so all very dark horses are called dark bay or brown.

    OK. I can accept that generalization.

    I have a harder time with the fact that Sunday Silence was listed in the *DRF as a "dark black or brown" .

    Dark black?!? Isn't all black dark? That is as redundant as saying "light white".

    The way is should have been worded is: dark: black or brown.

    And can someone tell me why in the Tb world, chestnut-with-greying-gene horses are called roans?

    They are not roans - they don't have the roaning factor, they are greys



    *However I see on pedigree query he is listed as drk b/brn.
    Likewise, Heavenly Cause was listed as a roan when racing. She is correctly identified as a grey in pedigree query.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Albion View Post
      Based on the early 19th century prints I have on my wall of the Darley & Godolphin Arabians, they bare as much resemblance to their modern, 21st century counterparts as TBs do - which is not much. Hardly "WIND UP TOY AYRABS" - they were late 17th and early 18th century equines for heaven's sake.
      There are nice, solid working Arabians, and then there are the plastic barbie doll renditions that some breeders propogate.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by Auventera Two View Post
        There are nice, solid working Arabians, and then there are the plastic barbie doll renditions that some breeders propogate.
        Yes. If someone tells me they're "into Arabs", I cautiously ask "what type?".

        I won't have anything to do with halter/park people

        Endurance & sport types are wonderful animals.

        Oh, and you could not convince me that some of these racing Arabs don't have a Thoroughbred in the woodpile somewheres.

        Comment


        • This thread wins the award for most tangents ever.
          Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
            This thread wins the award for most tangents ever.
            You're right there!

            Originally posted by Auventera Two View Post
            Oh yes and shattered legs strewn on the track looks so much more appealing.
            This could be the winner of "Most uneducated/uninformed/over-the-top ridiculous statement of the year," and that's saying something because we've had a lot of them.

            Newsflash: Arabian racehorses break down, too. So do Quarter Horse runners, Paints, Appys and Standardbreds. The reason you don't see the same kind of uproar when that happens is because ... hm ... not very many people watch Arabian racing. And please educate yourself just a tiny bit: TB people are far, far more active in placing off-track horses in "civilian" homes than pretty much any other racing arm. But again, it's a numbers thing.

            If you want to take on a racing genre that really, really needs its head pulled out of its a$$, please check out Quarter Horse racing. Gives a whole new gruesome meaning to the term "catastrophic breakdown."

            And before you get on your "you just hate Arabs!" stamping-your-feet soapbox, save the effort. I've owned and ridden some very nice Arabs. They are just not horses that I'd chose to say, oh, run in a G-1 classic or ride over a grand prix course. Of course, I also wouldn't ride a Freisian in an endurance race, but hey ... that's probably just me.
            Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by horselips View Post
              Heroin. Heroin was very big at the track way back when. That's the reason it's called "horse".
              Or so I've read.

              People used to smoke up with a nervous horse on race day as well. Now 60cc of vodka in the pipe does pretty well.

              Comment


              • an actual question about BB and his feet-not about racing Arabs!

                I no longer have a horse, and when I did, she was very sound, so I do not know the answer to this. But are quarter cracks the sort of thing that can be inherited? Or is he just unlucky? I cannot believe it would be poor nutrition in a top three year old. I guess some horses do just have bad feet, but what causes it?
                Another killer of threads

                Comment


                • Originally posted by horselips View Post
                  Some more confusing terminology.

                  Agreed.
                  But; there is such a thing as a fading black horse. Some breeds sometimes call this color black-bay. It is a separate color from brown and a separate color from dark bay.
                  A fading black looks black and has no tan mealy color behind nostrils or flanks-belly area (that would make them brown). In the summer they fade to a purplish brown, except legs - examples of this would be Sunday Silence or War Emblem but not Ruffian, who was a dark brown. Seattle Slew was probably a dark bay or medium brown.

                  The Tb world does not recognize the 'fading black' gene, so all very dark horses are called dark bay or brown.

                  OK. I can accept that generalization.

                  *However I see on pedigree query he is listed as drk b/brn.
                  Likewise, Heavenly Cause was listed as a roan when racing. She is correctly identified as a grey in pedigree query.
                  What you need to remember in these kinds of discussions, is that TB breeders and racing folk do not give a damn about color. It is even further down the scale than irrelevant. TB's are a performance bred, not a color breed.
                  madeline
                  * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Beezer View Post

                    Originally Posted by Auventera Two
                    Oh yes and shattered legs strewn on the track looks so much more appealing.

                    This could be the winner of "Most uneducated/uninformed/over-the-top ridiculous statement of the year," and that's saying something because we've had a lot of them.
                    I'm not inclined to agree with you but then I've probably read more of A2's postings than you have.

                    Comment


                    • I think it's interesting, genetic vs nutrition, vs environment.
                      I think it is a bit of all three.
                      When I was first starting out in my equine adventure, I worked for a wonderful woman. She was a true horseperson, and I am thankful to have spent time under her wing. She always had a big barn 40 horses. She shared a BIG owner/breeder with another trainer on the grounds. He also had a full barn. A large majority of their horses came from this one individual. They had trained the grandmothers, mothers and siblings of these horses. They bred to their imported stallions and turned over the stallions when time was necessary. She the female trainer had one quarter crack the years I worked for her. And he was plagued by quarter cracks in his barn. All of the horses were related somehow, they had the same environment to grow up in, and the same nutritional plan and ate feed from the same provider pre racetrack. They all trained on the same dirt surface but had different trainers with different programs at the track. So why was he plagued and she was not? I think that it's some genetics, BUT I think strongly that nutrition (ie supplementation) and hoof care, not just shoeing, but packing, cornucresine, reducine... etc. It was really interesting to watch these horses and how different they were in the individual trainer's "hands."

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        Originally posted by Madeline View Post
                        What you need to remember in these kinds of discussions, is that TB breeders and racing folk do not give a damn about color. It is even further down the scale than irrelevant. TB's are a performance bred, not a color breed.
                        Who the hell ever said it was a color breed?!?

                        For purposes of identification, it is better not to call a mare "him" or a chestnut "that pretty brown horse". It makes one sound foolish, at they very least.

                        Terms are used for a reason. Only an idiot jumps in a discussion on something they know nothing about and begins blathering confusing terms.
                        Of course it is clear the world is full of idiots, and they are not only catered to, they are encouraged.

                        I, personally, would not walk into a room of astrophysicists and try to join in on a conversation they were having concerning their work.

                        I would like to hope that anyone going to the racetrack could at the very least read and comprehend a racing program. Perhaps I'm hoping for too much.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by horselips View Post
                          ...
                          For purposes of identification, it is better not to call a mare "him" or a chestnut "that pretty brown horse". It makes one sound foolish, at they very least.

                          Terms are used for a reason. Only an idiot jumps in a discussion on something they know nothing about and begins blathering confusing terms.
                          Of course it is clear the world is full of idiots, and they are not only catered to, they are encouraged.

                          I would like to hope that anyone going to the racetrack could at the very least read and comprehend a racing program. Perhaps I'm hoping for too much.
                          All in all, for racing purposes, all the ID you need is a tattoo. People who blather endlessly about the stupidity of the JC not "correctly" differentiating between grey and roan or dark bay and brown are missing the whole point of TB breeding.

                          I really like Big Brown. Who is bay.
                          madeline
                          * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by horselips View Post


                            I have a harder time with the fact that Sunday Silence was listed in the *DRF as a "dark black or brown" .

                            Dark black?!? Isn't all black dark? That is as redundant as saying "light white".

                            The way is should have been worded is: dark: black or brown.

                            FWIW, I have DRF PPs on Sunday Silence. He's actually identified as "dkbbr. c." which translated means "dark bay or brown".

                            "b" is always bay. The few times I've seen "black" in the DRF it's shortened as "blk"

                            But there is a lot of truth to what Madeline is saying. In a sport where identification is so important that horse identifiers use tattoos on a breed that lists individual hair whorls on the papers issued by a registry that DNA tests every foal, there is just no need to use color to distinguish a horse other than redundantly. You just don't need to delve much further than "dark bay or brown" and no one I've met at the track much cares. Color doesn't help them run any faster.

                            Comment


                            • I can tell you with absolute certainty that the DRF never listed Sunday Silence as "dark black," which isn't even a Jockey Club color designation--thereby barring it from use in DRF's past performances. He was listed by DRF as "dkbbr," as someone mentioned earlier, which means "dark bay or brown." Check your copy of the DRF book "Champions" to see for yourself.

                              The way it [I]should[I] be worded is exactly the way the DRF worded it. There is no designation for "dark: black or brown," so that would be incorrect.

                              Comment


                              • In re the "it was ever thus" post ...

                                Look at old pedigrees. In many cases, the sire's name is given, likewise the grandsire, etc., and on back--all the stallions' names are given. Often the dam and other female ancestors are listed as merely "Sister to ____," "____'s dam," "_____ mare," etc.

                                Currently, TB/racehorse people recognize the dam's biological contributions to the foal, and say these are greater than the sire's. Maybe these were recognized in the old days as well, but certainly the evidence implies that the dams themselves were not as valued as the sires. No, they just carried the foals for ca. 11 months, but their names are not recorded in all the pedigrees.
                                Founder of the People Who Prefer COTH Over FB Clique
                                People Who Hate to Rush to Kill Wildlife Clique!
                                "I Sing Silly Songs to My Animals!" Clique

                                Comment


                                • On the subject of Half-Brothers, and seeing as this thread is now five parishes removed from it's original intention...

                                  The horse that just won the French Derby a couple of minutes ago, Vision d'Etat, has a 6yo half brother called Milan Deux Mille. The last race that Milan Deux Mille ran in???......... the Grand National in April!!
                                  Now that has to be a record for a broodmare.

                                  Comment

                                  Working...
                                  X