• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Your forum sign-up is not complete, you must add an Alias/Screen Name before you can post to the forums. Your name and email is not exposed to Forum users, only the Screen Name is accessible or viewable. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.
    Complete Profile
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.
    Complete Profile

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Breaking News - Big Brown's Slight Foot Injury?

Collapse
X
Collapse
  • Page of 6
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next
  • #21
    you are right, not all good runners or jumpers are freaks, a lot of them are very well bred animals. I should have clarified. I just meant that some of the greatest, have just had the heart to do it, not necessarily the breeding.

    Comment

    • #22
      I thought this post was about Big Brown's quarter crack?????????????????

      Comment

      • #23
        Originally posted by Wanderluster View Post
        I am crazy enough to suggest reintroduction of Arabian blood to add durability to the existing breed.
        As long as the race goes to the swift, that is not going to happen...
        madeline
        * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

        Comment

        • #24
          Originally posted by Wanderluster View Post

          I am crazy enough to suggest reintroduction of Arabian blood to add durability to the existing breed.

          Won't happen ever, why ? The industry pushes for speed and immediate return on investments which is a far better enticement to venture capitalists. It is a partnership that rewards owners, trainers, jockeys, with early financial rewards. It makes perfect sense from a business standpoint.

          I am sure that the JC would never consider such a radical change and even if the idea was appealing and rational the actual implementation would be impossible.
          Actually, this idea is nothing new, and like many other ideas set forth to improve TB racing (e.g., starting horses at 4 instead of 2), has been tried with dismal results. Staying sound over 100 miles going (relatively speaking) not very fast, and doing the same going less than 2 miles as fast as possible, are 2 entirely different proposals.

          IMO, the only way we're likely to start breeding those horses most capable of staying sound racing at the classic distances is to stop allowing all the modern veterinary and other treatments which allow more and more horses to continue racing and winning despite more and more seriously damaged feet, limbs, lungs, etc. Wonderful as these advances are when it comes to potential for increasing longevity, etc., of individuals, it seems to me that they very much cloud the principles of selectivity when it comes to perpetuating soundness/toughness as well as speed in the breed.
          http://www.tunnelsendfarm.com

          Comment

          • #25
            Actually I think it was Alexander Mackay-Smith who wrote years ago - I think in COTH - about adding Arab blood back into racing TB's. Of course that won't happen.
            What would be interesting would be races for Anglo-Arabs.
            I love TB's and Arabs - but have never been a real fan of Arab racing.
            (Although they were the original racehorse, were they not???!!!).
            In regards to BB - quarter crack - I may be all wrong here - but seems to me the horses racing the first two legs - BB and Gayego had the most "substance". Point:
            Is BB carrying too much weight for his hooves? Is that all muscle? Could he afford to lose a few pounds?

            Comment

            • #26
              Originally posted by Wanderluster View Post
              I am crazy enough to suggest reintroduction of Arabian blood to add durability to the existing breed. trust me I am not an Arabian fancier or breeder but if some of the bloodlines from the 100 mile endurance races could be brought back to Thoroughbred horses. There might be a shift toward horses that race with long careers over greater distance and remain sound after retirement. As an aside I think that those historical racing legends gave loyal fans a hero and an allegiance that I do not see today.
              Interesting idea, but that still would not be addressing the root cause of the problem. Everyone is going to disagree with me that I see this as a lifestyle and trimming issue. Hell, even an Arabian with good feet can appear to have lousy feet if they're not trimmed properly. Let the heels get tall, bars and quarters overgrown and they too will get quarter cracks....

              Comment

              • #27
                Just wondering re: Arab racing - granted they don't compare in speed to the TB - but what about their breakdowns? I don't follow Arab racing so really don't know.
                Leg/hoof problems training/racing? Casualties?
                Also don't know - speed of Arab vs TB. For a distance - say 1.1/4 miles - fastest Arab time vs TB? QH's and their breakdowns?
                I guess it can be said - QH best at 1/4 mile, TB best at one mile, Arab best at 100 miles!!!
                The Belmont is a long race for iffy hooves - worried about this.

                Comment

                • #28
                  <<Let the heels get tall, bars and quarters overgrown and they too will get quarter cracks....>>

                  Funnily enough, one of the traditional gripes against racetrack farriers is that they keep the heel much too short and the toe long, in an effort, I think the theory goes, to improve stride length.

                  Comment

                  • #29
                    Originally posted by grayarabs View Post
                    Also don't know - speed of Arab vs TB. For a distance - say 1.1/4 miles - fastest Arab time vs TB?

                    The Belmont is a long race for iffy hooves - worried about this.
                    The Dubai Kahayla Classic is one of the richest Arabian races in the world. This year's winner, Mizzna, covered the 2000m in 2:14:30.

                    Curlin won the Dubai World Cup on the same day, over the same course and same distance in 2:00:14, and he did it under a hand ride, not hard ridden.

                    In other words that's 14 seconds slower. Given that Curlin and co are trucking along at 12sec per furlong (1/8 mile, 200metres, or whatever you're drinking yourself), that means the fastest Arabian around would not even be at the eight pole when Curlin had already crossed the line.
                    Who in their right mind would cross out to that?

                    Btw, the Belmont is not a long race.

                    Comment

                    • #30
                      D - thanks for the info - about what I suspected.
                      The Belmont is the longest race of the TC series, though, right?

                      Comment

                      • #31
                        Originally posted by grayarabs View Post
                        Just wondering re: Arab racing - granted they don't compare in speed to the TB - but what about their breakdowns? I don't follow Arab racing so really don't know.
                        Leg/hoof problems training/racing? Casualties?
                        I'm not the best one to talk, as I have never worked directly in the North American arabian racing biz. But I've been around it closely enough to know you more or less have the exact same soundness problems as you see in TB flat racehorses.

                        Hoof problems are still present. Arabs get chips, fractures, bows, soft tissue injuries, too. I don't have any statistics or numbers, but I've seen at least one fatal breakdown in an arab race that I can recall. They are not immune. Oh, and they're a good bit slower.

                        The Belmont is the longest race of the TC series, though, right?
                        Yup. It's the longest at 12 furlongs (1 1/2 miles). The distance is long for North American dirt racing, but not long at all in the grand scheme of racing worldwide.

                        So... back to Big Brown's hoof problem--
                        I'm curious what people think if he manages to win the TC. Does this make him especially "great" because he did it while physically hindered? Or are we still of the consensus that he has been flattered by lack of competition?
                        Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                        Comment

                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                          I'm not the best one to talk, as I have never worked directly in the North American arabian racing biz. But I've been around it closely enough to know you more or less have the exact same soundness problems as you see in TB flat racehorses.
                          I would really like to see the statistics. Percentage of breakdowns might be an eye opener (or not) as racing Arabs are not started until 3 years old. Might be a good place to look at whether or not starting a race horse later than 2 years old results in less/more? catastrophic or career ending injuries.

                          However, I seriously doubt those involved in Arabian racing visit this site given the ugly prejudice and breedist mentality often seen. Funny, the forum is titled "Racing". I must have missed the part where it is supposed to be confined to TB racing.

                          Hoof problems are still present. Arabs get chips, fractures, bows, soft tissue injuries, too. I don't have any statistics or numbers, but I've seen at least one fatal breakdown in an Arab race that I can recall. They are not immune. Oh, and they're a good bit slower.
                          Only one? Again, without statistics the above statements are rather meaningless. Yes, Arabians are slower at the preferred racing distances but they haven't been bred for 200+ years with precocious speed as the only criteria. Many ex Arabian racers go on to a successful endurance racing career after the track. The Arab has much more bottom than the TB. That is what they’ve been selected for.

                          Comment

                          • #33
                            Not that this really has anything to do with cracks, but does anyone know how much Big Brown weighs and how tall he is?

                            Comment

                            • #34
                              Originally posted by rcloisonne View Post
                              Only one? Again, without statistics the above statements are rather meaningless.
                              Well, the fact that I've seen at least one fatal breakdown that I can recall holds some value in my mind considering how few arab races I've seen as compared to TB races. DelPark only has one arab race on the card a day and I rarely made an effort to watch it. (I don't have that kind of patience, haha!)

                              I will agree that you need statistics to know anything for sure. But having worked around racing arab trainers and breeders and having received several off the track arabs, in my experience they are plagued with the exact same soundness issues from racing. Now, I can't say for sure whether they experience more or less of those injuries without statistics. But they are not immune to injury.

                              North American racing arabs are becoming more and more like little thoroughbreds every generation.
                              Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                              Comment

                              • #35
                                Dons I have been wondering the same thing. How much weight on those hooves?
                                I don't recall seeing a photo of him looking like a racehorse/greyhound - you know?
                                The little I have seen - he looks like a dressage horse - to me at least!

                                Comment

                                • #36
                                  rc - It is interesting - now that we think about it - only TB's are discussed here.
                                  Would be nice to get some input from the other breeds. I, too, would like stats on Arab racing - in regards to soundness/breakdowns etc. And hooves - how much patch and repair there?

                                  Comment

                                  • #37
                                    I don't have any stats on arab racing other than they are hilarious to watch. They look like wind up toys to me. Anyway, the purses suck big time for arabs so I doubt it there is much, if any patching together going on. I can't see spending thousands getting a horse back to the races to run for peanuts.
                                    McDowell Racing Stables

                                    Home Away From Home

                                    Comment

                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                                      Anyway, the purses suck big time for arabs so I doubt it there is much, if any patching together going on. I can't see spending thousands getting a horse back to the races to run for peanuts.
                                      For what it's worth, at New Bolton we had racing arabs admitted for chip removals, nuclear scans, lameness evaluations, etc. Not in huge numbers like the TBs and STBs, but then there aren't that many racing arabs in the area. We also had race-bred foals in our NICU and racing broodmares in our high risk pregnancy program.

                                      They do look like windup toys, hahahahaha!
                                      Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                      Comment

                                      • #39
                                        I voted for racing in Texas way back in the day - and was thrilled that they built Sam Houston Racetrack about five miles from me. I went several times to the races - when it started up - back then - not much "class" to the TB's racing. I was surprised to see Arabians racing!! Of course I watched - but agree - just not the same. Almost difficult to take them seriously - tails up and all. They are not so silly in the Tevis though!!!
                                        That is their element!

                                        Comment

                                        • #40
                                          http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2008/04...-in-derby.html
                                          Here's some additional info about Big Browns hooves and the care that he has been receiving for the hoof issues.
                                          The essential joy of being with horses is that it brings us in contact with the rare elements of grace, beauty, spirit, and fire. ~Sharon Ralls Lemon

                                          Comment

                                          Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next
                                          Working...
                                          X