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National Hunt Derby Sale in Ireland

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  • National Hunt Derby Sale in Ireland

    This might get taken down, but I can assure you I am not an agent for these horses nor do I have any room for any horses at the moment with moving looming large, but just wanted to share a few things.

    Lot 196 is a 2005 White gelding. He was for sale a few years ago as a foal and made 35,000euros I believe. He is now a gelding so now White stallion prospect for this guy. By the way daddy Revoque is bay and mom Stage Debut is chestnut. Original owners had no clue this guy was actually a color other than white and therefore he wasn't tested. Oddly enough he has a 4yo half sister in before him, lot 195, and she is Bay. Different consignors I see.

    Lot 151 is a 4yo Bay filly by Bob Back. Her mother is a full sister to Moon Fleet. This would be a full sister of the one who sold back in August for 13,000euros.

    For anyone not knowing what the Derby Sale is, it's the premier National Hunt sale for 3 and 4yo horses. It would be the exact same as the Saratoga yearling sale or Keeneland yearling sale day 1 and 2. Three and four year old National Hunt horses are the same as flat yearlings.

    I just think some of these horses have an interest because of color and the sporthorse angle as far as breeding. I'm not trying to sell anything.

    Link for Tatts:
    www.tattersalls.ie
    click for Derby sale and then the lot numbers.

    Cheers
    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

  • #2
    Droooooool........

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Yes, Old Vic and Presenting are the men among men in NH breeding. Such a strong mare on lot 5. The woman here who breeds NH horses sends the same mare to Old Vic every year. Every year she gets a foal with legs in all sorts of directions and terribly over at the knee. It's totally mare related and well um the feed program is ghastly!

      I was going to take pictures of the White lad but I will be taking my 3yo warmblood to some qualifiers for the RDS that day. I might nip up the day before instead.

      Terri
      COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

      "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

      Comment


      • #4
        This one is especially nice. Though she would probably present problems for some WB breeders, being "Not in GSB".

        Comment


        • #5
          The Catalog is a learning opportunity for me.

          What do you experts think of #35?
          "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
          Thread killer Extraordinaire

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
            The Catalog is a learning opportunity for me.

            What do you experts think of #35?
            It's by no means bad, but I wouldn't consider it a fantastic NH pedigree. The sire gets respectable number of winners over fences, and some decent middle distance runners on the flat too (King's Drama who won the Sword Dancer at Saratoga a few years ago). His most notable runner over jumps was the staying hurdler, Wichita Lineman. The damsire has been used primarily as a NH sire in Ireland, but his most succesful runner was actually a stayer on the flat, Jardine's Lookout who won the Goodwood Cup (2m) and was 3rd in the Melbourne Cup (2m).
            The dam's damire, Strong Gale, is of course a legend as a NH stallion, and also the sire of the aforementioned Moonfleet.

            Comment


            • #7
              #37 is out of a half to Moscow Flyer, but the dam was unraced and hasn't produced a starter yet, apparently. On the other hand, her offspring are all really young, so it's kind of early to tell. Second dam only produced Moscow Flyer, but would he be enough by himself?

              Will the connection to Moscow Flyer make the filly desirable, even if she isn't by a one of the "hotter" NH sires. At least, I wouldn't think Broadway Flyer would be a particularly marketable sire--or is he? On the other hand, having just looked at his pedigree--How the hell did he come to be born in the USA?

              I just looked at all the sires, and there doesn't seem to be a single active sire who isn't Nearco line, except for a couple of Indian Ridges--and most are Northern Dancer. I cannot believe the genetic bottleneck that has been created. Ireland needs a Hastings line sire or a Precipitation line sire to bring Matchem back into the sire line mix.
              Last edited by vineyridge; May. 22, 2008, 01:58 AM.
              "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
              Thread killer Extraordinaire

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Hi All,
                Yes I was trying to sort through and find something different as well but haven't done much research yet. Was hoping some of the French breds might offer a glimmer of hope.

                As for Non TB studbook mares. I'm sure the IHB would approve them and so would Zangersheide I believe because the pedigree is traceable, but the other studbooks wouldn't. The AES would also be a book that would put the mare's in as well. IHB you don't have to have any breeding recorded and it will be registered. My least favorite studbook of all.

                Number 35. It's funny you picked this one as the girl who works for us during the winter is the one in charge of looking after this lad. Apparently he is a bit small which might not go over to well. For a NH mare she is strong enough.

                It use to be that no one would race their NH mares if there was a glimmer of hope further down with regards to black type. Waiting until 4 to get a runner or even 5 or 6, then all the training bills. Most would breed them as a way to get some money. Now they've introduced a nice series of races for mares only and more people are running fillies. However, it is still a curse to have a NH filly born as you likely won't make the money a colt would. This Lady Eileen breeds nothing but NH and every time she has a filly she always curses the luck. She infuriates me. She's 85 and I went off on her this year. I said be thankful they're healthy and alive for crying out loud. This was after my filly had to be put down. And also the week before my filly died, she said oh lovely foal to bad about the sex though. And then added, oh yes, you like the fillies. Most NH stallion owners, not the big guys, offer free returns if you get a filly foal. That's the nature of this game.

                Broadway Flyer, has had a bit interest but he is by Theatrical and some of the NH crowd don't really like the Theatricals. He has another son by the name of Humbel whom my 1st homebred is by. You have a tendency to get chestnuts with this line where you wouldn't expect it. My filly is chestnut and both parents are bay for example. If you think filly is bad, chestnut filly is worse.

                Look it, to me the NH game is a crap shoot. If you follow the sales long enough sometimes you don't see a rhyme or reason for why some make big money and others don't. One year a 1st season sire is hot hot hot, the next year they won't be touched no matter what the mare has done. Even more silly when they won't have any runners for a few years. By the same token near enough anything by Presenting and Old Vic will make money. Kayf Tara is the new upshot that nobody can get enough of. There was a Kayf Tara filly born here this year whose mother never ran and there's not a bit of black type in 4 dams. The mare is a nut job whom they are going to sell again in the fall. However, even in foal to Kalanisi, she's only worth about 3 -5 grand. The KT was the only reason the mare was a little valuable.

                Anyway, yapping far too long as usual!

                Terri
                COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for yapping. As I keep going through the catalog, I'm sure I'll have more questions.

                  One thing I noticed is that none of the three year olds have been broken, and the four year olds are usually driving on long reins. Does that mean that they haven't been backed yet? If so, this makes me feel much better about my 3 yo TBs destined for sport not having been backed yet. I'm getting A LOT of pressure to send mine off for starting under saddle--and one isn't truly 3 yet, while the other turned 3 two weeks ago.
                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                  Thread killer Extraordinaire

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Yes, most would not be broke, but there is a strange reason why. There is a stigma attached to broken 3 and 4 yo's. In the old days if they were broken they were deemed "tried" and therefore in a sale because they were no good. Consignors about a year ago started asking questions on why this was still the way. Some pointed out it would be much better for the horse overall to be started gentley at 3 and ridden in prep or with prep instead of all the lunging. And by God do they lunge for the NH sale. If you look there are a couple of broken ones in the sale. Very few, but they are there. I will say most are just lambs to break after the sale, but some can be very overweight so we might dry lot them before breaking or give them limited access to grass and get all that food out of their system.

                    Lady Eileen came to see us this evening to ask us to break her 2 3yo NH fillies. They have been turned out since they were foals, competely and utterly obese, have no manners or respect for humans whatsoever and get their feet done and wormed twice a year. Also completely herdbound with each other. One would kick you as soon as look at you. I was hoping my husband would say no, but of course we will have to break them. She has 2 people that are supposed to look after the horses and this is what you get. GRRRR! Just because they aren't supposed to be broke until 3 doesn't mean they can't be handled and taught manners. When we get them and cleaned up a little, you know manes and tails dragging the ground, I'll take some pictures. One is an Old Vic out of a Phardante mare and one is by Court Cave out of a Strong Gale mare.

                    Terri
                    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Mine tie, lead, load, have their feet trimmed every six weeks, are good with the vet and love their grooming, which includes foot picking. Clipping I haven't tried. I haven't lunged them yet because it's supposed to be hard on their knees, but I do plan to long line them. I was going to send them off this fall to be backed, but I'd really rather wait another six months on the younger one. He's a little fellow, and looks very immature.

                      I can't imagine how hard it will be for you to start from scratch with 3 yos.
                      "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                      Thread killer Extraordinaire

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This kind of back and forth is very interesting, showing how different the process are between our countries. Wish we could be there.
                        Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Hi All,
                          Just thought I would update you on the "white" gelding that sold at Tatts yesterday. He made 31,000euros and will go in training with Nicky Henderson in England.

                          I took some pictures of him and they can be accessed at my MCOTH page down below. He has his own album which was just added so easy to find.


                          Terri
                          COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                          "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                          Comment

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