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No more Salix for 2yo stakes horses in 2012

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  • No more Salix for 2yo stakes horses in 2012

    Story on BH here.

    A step in the right direction? Or not going to make a difference?
    http://poorwomanshowing.blogspot.com/
    R.I.P. Eagles Hill. 4/6/00-12/10/11.

  • #2
    I think it's just one more good reason to tell the Graded Stakes Committee to take a hike.

    Comment


    • #3
      Absolutely horrid decision.
      McDowell Racing Stables

      Home Away From Home

      Comment


      • #4
        Interested to hear from trainers why they think it's a bad idea/good idea.

        Comment


        • #5
          Terrible, but my first thought was, "Well THAT will make for an interesting Triple Crown season..."

          I think the 2 year old stakes crowd is a bizarre choice of sub-population for experimentation.

          And lastly, having worked with lasix both for racing purposes and medicinal purposes, I'd just assume see it not used. It's not the stakes horses I worry about, it's the cheap horses running back every 14 days.
          Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, it's so much better to let the cheap horses flounder in their own blood and get sent to the killers. Insert sarcasm here.
            McDowell Racing Stables

            Home Away From Home

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
              Yeah, it's so much better to let the cheap horses flounder in their own blood and get sent to the killers. Insert sarcasm here.
              Isn't the change initially just for 2 year olds running in graded stakes races? At this point, it doesn't seem like this rule will affect the 7 year old $4k claimer.

              From a racing-fan perspective, it seems like a positive change to me, but I'm very willing to learn about the pros and the cons from a horseman's perspective, because I'm sure there's a lot I don't know. To an outsider, the rest of the world can run successfully without Lasix, so it seems that we should be able to do the same. As a pharmacist, I know Lasix comes with a host of other problems, namely its propensity to cause electrolyte imbalances.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                Terrible, but my first thought was, "Well THAT will make for an interesting Triple Crown season..."

                I think the 2 year old stakes crowd is a bizarre choice of sub-population for experimentation.
                Is a good first step. Yes it will make for an interesting triple crown season especially being as that NO triple crown winner ever ran on lasix.

                Good news for sure.
                "I am going to have horse racing as my business, and my hobby will be punishing each and every one of you pinheads, so happy blogging you have my attention"
                Michael Gill-2010

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm totally anti drug. And being over in Europe with their policies you see why it is easier. Nobody but nobody has done a study that includes climate. I really believe horses are more likely to bleed in America than anywhere else due to extremes such as the summer you all have had. Yes Salix is over used and sort of the done thing but there are horses that probably are in genuine need. I'm not convinced of a total genetic component considering England and Ireland are based on American bloodlines. What's different, climate for a start and possibly getting out more and different conditioning. A vet that boards at my barn and I had this conversation and any true bleeder should be offered Salix. We are also not fond of the no regumate policy here. It's why most people loathe fillies. Again not every filly needs it but it allows her to run to her ability. You have an unruly colt and you can geld him to be the horse he can be without hormones but because a filly needs a so called drug for the same benefits, it's not allowed?

                  I don't know, I remember when I was a groom at Laurel and out of 30 horses in the barn, 2 were lasix horses. Both mine which meant very cold afternoons for me in the lasix barn. Now it's just overdone as is everything so a ban is the only alternative. I don't know what's right or wrong. Well abuse is always wrong but you know what I'm on about.

                  Terri
                  COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

                  "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Equilibrium View Post
                    I'm totally anti drug. And being over in Europe with their policies you see why it is easier. Nobody but nobody has done a study that includes climate. I really believe horses are more likely to bleed in America than anywhere else due to extremes such as the summer you all have had. Yes Salix is over used and sort of the done thing but there are horses that probably are in genuine need. I'm not convinced of a total genetic component considering England and Ireland are based on American bloodlines. What's different, climate for a start and possibly getting out more and different conditioning. A vet that boards at my barn and I had this conversation and any true bleeder should be offered Salix. We are also not fond of the no regumate policy here. It's why most people loathe fillies. Again not every filly needs it but it allows her to run to her ability. You have an unruly colt and you can geld him to be the horse he can be without hormones but because a filly needs a so called drug for the same benefits, it's not allowed?

                    I don't know, I remember when I was a groom at Laurel and out of 30 horses in the barn, 2 were lasix horses. Both mine which meant very cold afternoons for me in the lasix barn. Now it's just overdone as is everything so a ban is the only alternative. I don't know what's right or wrong. Well abuse is always wrong but you know what I'm on about.

                    Terri
                    Probably a more sensible approach...

                    My general impression is that the medication is used because it gives you an edge. No way can all horses be in need of it, but all run faster, so in order to be competitive you gotta use.

                    I am of the position that the races are supposed to evaluate future breeding stock. If you can't run modified, then that's pretty much it.

                    It would probably be a good idea to actually have study done if the junk is actually needed.
                    Originally posted by BigMama1
                    Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                    GNU Terry Prachett

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                      Yeah, it's so much better to let the cheap horses flounder in their own blood and get sent to the killers. Insert sarcasm here.
                      You know as well as I do horses still bleed through Lasix and it is not without side effects. If a horse is truly "floundering in their own blood," with or without Lasix, they shouldn't be running back frequently.
                      Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                        You know as well as I do horses still bleed through Lasix and it is not without side effects. If a horse is truly "floundering in their own blood," with or without Lasix, they shouldn't be running back frequently.
                        Or quite possibly at all. (Never mind whether or not they should be bred.)
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by On the Farm View Post
                          I think it's just one more good reason to tell the Graded Stakes Committee to take a hike.
                          Agreed 110%

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                            You know as well as I do horses still bleed through Lasix and it is not without side effects. If a horse is truly "floundering in their own blood," with or without Lasix, they shouldn't be running back frequently.
                            Horses that bleed through generally aren't running back in 14 days. Depending on the severity, it can take a while to get a horse to a work let alone a race.
                            Racing secretaries are having a hard enough time (here) filling a card. Our horse population is minute. It's really sad! THIS will just make the races that much harder to fill. How much longer before we are running a 2 or three day week... oh ya, right around the corner...
                            They are going to cripple the sport. We're already limping along in this economy. Add this and we are in deep sheep.
                            Horses bleed. Horses bleed in Europe and Japan. WE however CAN manage bleeders with adjunct medication (Amicar, guanabenz, etc), "downers," Shepherd's purse, Any number of herbal mixes.
                            A few weeks ago, a "trainer" who doesn't believe in anything other than "herbs, sent a horse out to work. It went down at the wire. A pool of blood is what lay were the horse went down. The wagon came out, the horse had gotten up, and did get a ride back to the barn. WE ought to be able to medicate our horses appropriately to prevent such a situation. It's not fair for a horse to have to go down in a pool of blood out of it's nose to get treated or have it's career end.. and yep.. when the mare's career is done she will likely be bred. Bred to any number of stallions who bled during their careers.
                            Yep it's a cycle. BUT all horses bleed. We just happen to be an industry that scopes our horses regularly. Anatomy and physiology will dictate that horses will bleed

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If horses around the world can race without Lasix, I just don't understand why horses in America are so dependent on the drug. Certainly not every horse that races abroad without Lasix falls down in a pool of his own blood. If it is true that all horses bleed, it would seem that other jurisdictions are managing it a whole lot better than we are.


                              I thought THIS was interesting. I'm not sure who the author is, but I always enjoy his blogs.

                              Something I've always found peculiar -- why do we repeatedly breeze horses 3-5 furlongs and ask them to run 6-10 furlong races?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                a horse doen't have to breeze or work 1 1/16 to be fit to run 1 1/16 miles... true

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Bleeding is a cumulative thing. Each time does a little damage. Or a lot of damage depending upon how severe it is. That heals with scar tissue which makes the lungs more likely to bleed the next time. Or you can give a shot of lasix and head off the majority of the little bleeds that horses have and avoid or delay the downward spiral. It's lasix, not heroin.
                                  McDowell Racing Stables

                                  Home Away From Home

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Thanks Laurie, that does make sense - Lasix used as a preventive measure to stop the issue from getting worse.

                                    This blog again...

                                    "I submit that we can control the instances of EIPH in the vast majority of thoroughbreds through the re-structuring of conditioning regimens and a mandatory pre-race warm up protocol.

                                    To review, thoroughbred bleeding is principally due to high blood pressure build up in pulmonary capillaries during a race, this pressure quickly increases faster than these vessels can accommodate the increased blood flow, leading to many ruptures within the sensitive lung tissues."


                                    It seems like a simple explanation and solution, but nothing is ever as simple as it seems. Or is it?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                                      It's lasix, not heroin.
                                      This may have to be my FB staus

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Excellent Blog - an alternative to Salix called conditioning

                                        alspharmd -
                                        That blog was a great read - thanks for sharing it.

                                        Comment

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