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"Sold Without Pedigree" question

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  • "Sold Without Pedigree" question

    Hi Everyone,

    I took on a tb mare from a rescue knowing the papers were in some sort of flux. I went on the jockey club site to look up her name and it was listed as Sold Without Pedigree. The ridiculous part of this is that the previous owner abandoned her, let her starve and really could have cared less, but managed have the time to mark her as SWP ???? ah jeeeeezzzzzzz,....Does this mean I can never get her papers...

    What about proving who she is for use in breeding for sport?

    Any and all advice, experiences, etc welcome. thanks!!

  • #2
    You can never get her Jockey Club papers back.

    http://www.jockeyclub.com/registry.a...ion=3#eighteen

    How do you know that the same person who had her papers cancelled is the same one who starved her?
    Delicious strawberry flavored death!

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Epona,

      Thank you for your info. To answer your question,
      I took her on from a rescue group. Apparently there was a disharmonious dissolution of a racing/breeding partnership and the horses got 'left' on their own. The rescue organisation told me there was some issue with the papers b/c the "owner- whoever that was" was trying to do just this- and keep anyone from being able to do anything with them....The rescue organisation was trying to work with the JC to amend it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, he surely took care of that! Honestly, theres not a whole lot that JC is gonna do unless he provides notarized permission.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Thanks Langfuhr,
          Interestingly, the JC did not offer that as even a remote possibility when I spoke with them. I did not ask specifically that question tho'. Not sure I could even track down the owner, last I heard he left this country and moved to England. He probably has a new batch of horses over there....

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Flying Ponies View Post
            Thanks Langfuhr,
            Interestingly, the JC did not offer that as even a remote possibility when I spoke with them. I did not ask specifically that question tho'. Not sure I could even track down the owner, last I heard he left this country and moved to England. He probably has a new batch of horses over there....
            There's this thing called the Internet. It can find almost anyone, anywhere.

            Best of luck in your search. If I could wave a magic wand and change ONE thing about equestrian life it would be the JC's total policy of non-cooperation with sport horse people.
            "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

            Comment


            • #7
              Once the pedigree is gone, it's gone. I imagine that is one rule they will fight to the death on because to cave even once would open them up to everyone pressing the issue. Not saying you don't have a legitimate right to get them, it's just not going to happen.
              McDowell Racing Stables

              Home Away From Home

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                War Adrmiral,

                OMGosh LOL, AMEN!!!

                Isn't there, or maybe shouldn't there be a "registry" for TB's who have been excommunicated from the JC whereby you could get a "certificate" of pedigree based on DNA matchup, something or other - just to prove who the horse IS.....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                  Once the pedigree is gone, it's gone. I imagine that is one rule they will fight to the death on because to cave even once would open them up to everyone pressing the issue. Not saying you don't have a legitimate right to get them, it's just not going to happen.
                  That's why I said it would require a magic wand!

                  FP, yeah, way back when, that's what the PHR was *supposed* to be. Then they opened it up to other breeds and it's pretty much pointless now.
                  "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I dont think Ive ever seen a SWP reversal..

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Flying Ponies View Post
                      What about proving who she is for use in breeding for sport?
                      I used to work for TJC and I don't think they have ever reversed a SWP.

                      She would be eligible for papers with the PHR. You can read about the history of it's development by TJC here.

                      http://www.phr.com/pageDisplay.aspx?pid=history

                      The only reason they opened it up to other breeds is because of a lack of interest from the hobby/sport horse community.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Will def check this,thanks Las Olas!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sold Without Pedigree..............

                          Watch for a few 'incomplete' following Churchill's recent storm.

                          Loose horses create baby forces........

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've never gone the SWP route, but wish I had on a gelding... I love to have the papers, so always offer them and just put a ReRun sticker on them, but it has bitten me in the butt in the past, so I completely understand why it is done.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My super gelding was SWP to the person I bought him from 11 years ago. No papers no way says the JC although I did speak to a VERY nice woman who did give me enough info to at least verify the horse's name abd birthday. Then i was able to look up his pedigree, which was very impressive BTW! Most of the OTTBs I have bought since then, and there were many, came with papers; some with NOT FOR RACING written on them ( a no-no) but mostly just ready to transfer. I kinda like the exclusivity of the JC and the fact that they stand on the old school rules. So many entities morph to please the masses or be PC , so I respect them for holding on to their position.
                              SPAY/NEUTER/RESCUE/ADOPT!
                              Little Star Chihuahua Rescue
                              The Barkalicious Bakery
                              On Facebook!!!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                came with papers; some with NOT FOR RACING written on them ( a no-no)
                                Why is this a No-No...I buy OTTB all the time w/ Papers totally defaced w/ permanat marker to prevent them from ever ending up racing again...and fillies w/ "For Breeding" only written on the margins or across back.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by judybigredpony View Post
                                  Why is this a No-No...I buy OTTB all the time w/ Papers totally defaced w/ permanat marker to prevent them from ever ending up racing again...and fillies w/ "For Breeding" only written on the margins or across back.
                                  That doesn't prevent anything. It is defacement and the owner can get a duplicate set. The only way to prevent racing is to send the papers back as sold without pedigree. There is no way to prevent breeding except sold with out pedigree but that just prevents the foal's from being registered not the actual breeding itself.
                                  McDowell Racing Stables

                                  Home Away From Home

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Hmmm...have had Race Secretary turn back papers that were defaced and yeah you can get duplicates but you usually need a sellers letter and noterized.
                                    Not as easy as it used to be...

                                    Fillies sold for "breeding only" were to prevent them from being raced not bred....A number of Sports horse registried require mares proof of registration not just a tattoo

                                    I would prefer to lobby for limited papers like in dogs that are a diffrent color...you return your orginals when horses race career is over... and have a re-issue that is say Orange and its for show or breeding only NOT TO RACE...That way everyone is satisfied..the buyer who wants some sort of JC papers and the seller who can control the horse not racing again.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      You can write anything you like on the papers (with crayons or a sharpie even) but it doesn't do a damn thing. The only thing that will stop a horse from being raced or producing offspring that can be registered (barring gelding/spaying) is sending in the papers and having the horse marked as without pedigree which removes them from the JC registry.

                                      And yes, it would be nice if the JC would change thing so that another sort of papers can be issued that would keep the horse from being raced and/or being bred, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
                                      Delicious strawberry flavored death!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I like that idea Judybigredpony. The writing or stickers will not stop anything - they have to be returned to the JC in order to be sure the horse will not be raced.

                                        Isn't it sold with out papers? They will always have their "pedigree"...

                                        Comment

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