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New Vitali claim

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  • New Vitali claim

    We're former members of a partnership that had a horse claimed by Marcus Vitali at Belmont on May 14. Unforunately the horse pulled up lame after the race. His name is Iguazu. If anyone has any knowledge of what has happened to him, would appreciate knowing. I have signed up at the Jockey Club site, but of course it is so new, who knows if the trainers are using it yet. Or perhaps the horse is going to be given a deserved break and can be brought back. But if anyone has any info, would appreciate it.

    NB - just found out he supposedly went to Suffolk. Hope he's doing ok.
    Last edited by CVPeg; Jun. 6, 2011, 10:50 AM. Reason: Added info
    But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

  • #2
    Put him in a watch mail from DRF or Equibase.

    He should work soon if he's healthy.

    And even so if he comes out of whatever lameness and resumes racing this way will track him fastest.

    Watch the CANTER New england Listings also... that way if they give up on him you may know earlier.

    ~Emily
    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Thanks - I have had a DRF watch on him from the beginning, but if he's not training...

      But I didn't think of the Canter site - great, thanks again.
      But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

      Comment


      • #4
        Are you just curious or do you want to offer a home to the horse if/when he is done racing? If it's the latter I would contact the new connections and make that known to them. You would have to be prepared to take him in any condition however.
        McDowell Racing Stables

        Home Away From Home

        Comment


        • #5
          I would suggest you contact Suffolk Downs>Phone: (617) 567-3900 and ask for the contact info for Marcus Vitali. He can be difficult to deal with. Also ask for the new owners contact info>>Frank Catapano & let him know your interest.
          The horse ran 3rd and they paid a 10K claim.
          As Laurierace said, if you are offering a home, I would not dawdle on this and let him know you are ready to take him when called (as in RIGHT NOW, if called).

          Another poster stated she got an OTTB off the slaughter track, MV was his trainer (and the horse won his last race out)... Lost jockey papers is the thread/racing.
          IN GOD WE TRUST
          OTTB's ready to show/event/jumpers. Track ponies for perfect trail partners.
          http://www.horseville.com/php/search...=1&ssid=057680

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
            Are you just curious or do you want to offer a home to the horse if/when he is done racing? If it's the latter I would contact the new connections and make that known to them. You would have to be prepared to take him in any condition however.
            Knew this horse well - sig other owned a piece, and so called altruistic partnership did not do right by him at all this past year. I signed up for him with the new Jockey Club site, but certainly won't rely on it.

            Originally posted by brightskyfarm View Post
            I would suggest you contact Suffolk Downs>Phone: (617) 567-3900 and ask for the contact info for Marcus Vitali. He can be difficult to deal with. Also ask for the new owners contact info>>Frank Catapano & let him know your interest.
            The horse ran 3rd and they paid a 10K claim.
            As Laurierace said, if you are offering a home, I would not dawdle on this and let him know you are ready to take him when called (as in RIGHT NOW, if called).

            Another poster stated she got an OTTB off the slaughter track, MV was his trainer (and the horse won his last race out)... Lost jockey papers is the thread/racing.
            I got the info on Gill/MV off the Penn thread, which made me shudder, although I then heard MV is trying to do better, thus his license now in NY? Oh, wait - I just read the Lost Papers thread - will PM the OP.

            I travel almost monthly up to Maine and about to go next week - think I'd have a better shot just dropping in at Suffolk in the a.m., rather than call? I have a NY owner's license, so think they might at least let me in the gate. Are the barns/track, etc. all right within the same general area?
            Not exactly the best time to pick up the horse - trying to sell my house -would be easier once it's gone - but the worst would be his taking the long walk...
            But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Probably opening a can of worms, but if Suffolk has a no slaughter policy since at least 2009, and the "no papers" thread horse was just picked up off a slaughter truck after winning there in summer 2010 - guess that means the trucks are still a healthy business for owners/trainers at Suffolk and other locations (NY now has no slaughter rule...)...thus the "no papers". How the h*** do they think they can just keep on keepin' on?!? Didn't take long for "no papers" owner to ID him...

              I know I have naive written right across my forehead...
              But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

              Comment


              • #8
                Is there not a time deadline for exit from racing within which the track would no longer be responsible? I don't know Suffolk policy inside out but I cannot see how the track can be held liable indefinitely. There are great big grey areas and loopholes threw which those slaughter trucks can most easily manuever.
                "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Not sure this will work - first time posting a Facebook photo link. Here's a couple of photos as a late 2yo, early 3yo...

                  http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...00000167032517
                  But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    QUOTE: Is there not a time deadline for exit from racing within which the track would no longer be responsible?

                    ANSWER: NO. Requirements depend on the tracks specific anti-slaughter policy. Example: Penn National requires a bill of sale showing to whom the horse was sold, when, and other contact information. Without that, you are toast.

                    This is not the tracks responsibility, its the owners/trainers. The track is only enforcing their policy. O/T that violate policy stand risk of losing their licensing (well, ok, there seem to be some variable to this at certain tracks ---) Aside though,
                    policy hopefully reminds O/T's to be responsible to their animals.

                    Yes, there are loopholes and the pipeline is still active everywhere, closing these gaps will take time and diligence. (oh yes, and enforcing policy)

                    To the OP, if this is a horse you are genuinely concerned for, then its up to you to stay in contact with his current owner enough to be there to oversee his well-being.
                    Its not in someone elses backyard anymore....... your Pres brought it home.
                    Racing>Business As Usual @PN

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The tracks can not take their licenses away, they take the stalls away. I have heard very few cases of that actually being enforced anywhere so the term toast is relative.
                      McDowell Racing Stables

                      Home Away From Home

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by SwtVixen View Post
                        Yes, there are loopholes and the pipeline is still active everywhere, closing these gaps will take time and diligence. (oh yes, and enforcing policy)

                        To the OP, if this is a horse you are genuinely concerned for, then its up to you to stay in contact with his current owner enough to be there to oversee his well-being.
                        Thanks for the info - I've also googled the policies at Suffolk and NYRA, and can't quite seem to find the specifics. Just an article about some trainers at Suffolk being removed and then reinstated last year.

                        There were other partners on this horse - many supposedly concerned, and managing partner said they'd stay in touch w/ new trainer or owner. Not confident of this - especially as he raced at Belmont, then was supposedly shipped to a Suffolk barn.

                        I'm going to try a call to new owner - see if he has old managing partner's info in case they plan on retiring the horse. If I'm rebuffed, may still show up at the barn door at Suffolk to see if I can eyeball him. And think I'll also contact CANTER to watch for him. In the meantime I posted the pics above in case anyone out there comes across him.
                        But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Also, be prepared to pay for him...it's doubtfull they will just give him away.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It only takes one sale after being sold off the track to end up on a kill truck--I think they're only responsible if they knowingly sell DIRECTLY to someone who is a kill buyer. There was the situation in WV not too long ago one of one flipper using her kids as cover--CANTER-MA caught a horse on the AC4H listings that had been sold to a woman "for her autistic son." The woman flipped it straight to a broker (the trainer bought it back.) So while yeah, there are still trainers who find ways around the rules, it's also possible for the people buying straight for kill or auction to lie to their faces and pick up the horses "to a good home.'
                            Author Page
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                            Steampunk Sweethearts

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Off the exact topic but relevant...

                              A month or so ago I saw a Tb on the Camelot FB listings and they gave just enough info in the description that I could pull his record and see that he'd run at Finger Lakes 3 weeks before.

                              So, knowing that FL put out a press release about their "Zero tolerance" policy in 2009 (After the Whitney horse incident) I called them up. Talked to the stewards and the FLTLAP. Bottom line... NO ONE knew what their 0 tolerance policy was or what it included.

                              Now the story is half sitting unfinished. The horse got a home from someone buying it from Camelot. But when I spoke to the steward again after we all knew the horse had been purchased he said "Ok well thats settled he got a home." To which I pointed out while this is all well and good, it doesn't address the "Consequences" that are supposed to befall a trainer for sending a horse to a kill buyer auction... as per their press release.

                              I have some follow ups planned. But really it was a sad day. Why make a policy then never track and enforce it?

                              ~Emily
                              "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Why make a policy then never track and enforce it?

                                THIS^^^^

                                has been a consistant question on the *Business As Usual* thread.

                                Laurierace, someone mentioned the FL's episode of pulling licenses on 3 people found flipping directly to kill auctions. Sadly, 2 of the people are from PN and I dont believe their NY licenses were returned --- the other persons was. But, I do stand corrected, its not PN's policy to do anything other than deny stalls.

                                To the OP, MV moves horses quickly so if you are concerned for this horse, perhaps you might want to claim it back next race? or offer purchase? if you find a heart-to-heart doesnt offer you the assurances you desire. Honestly, I would solely focus on maintaining a relationship with the current owner, (honey gets more flies you know).
                                Its not in someone elses backyard anymore....... your Pres brought it home.
                                Racing>Business As Usual @PN

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Not to make you worry anymore then what you have too, but as you already know, Vitali was a Gill trainer and not one Gill trainer that I know of put the well being of the horse first. You have to be of low caliber scum to train for that man. It is a requirement. There were a few exceptions and those are the trainers that took on some of his horses, realised what unethical practices were required and quickly got out.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Sadly I just received an e-mail reply to my concerns posted here, from Vitali's girlfriend, advising after much consideration that the horse was put down. She stated he had a double slab fracture, the track vet & a surgeon were consulted. He could not even get up or down in his stall.

                                    Although I've watched all of these recent doings from afar, the blame truly lies with original managing partner who went against Iguazu's first trainer. This individual continues to hold himself out as an expert, and even a racing business consultant, when he is no horseman of any kind. Beware of those on the track alleging to be experts, when all they know how to do is read charts.

                                    I'm a bit stunned about now - too much to even cry. This horse was a beautiful animal, and deserved better.
                                    But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      CVPeg,

                                      I know this outcome is not what you were hoping for, but in the long run I would be thankful that the horse didn't continue to suffer. Additionally he was not quickly patched together and run at a low level while in some amount of pain.

                                      For all you can say about bad trainers and bad choices that lead to these moments, at least these people and their vet were smart enough that they went with the only option out there for him, the gift of freedom from lifelong pain.

                                      Not all are so lucky.

                                      ~Emily
                                      "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Xctrygirl View Post
                                        CVPeg,

                                        I know this outcome is not what you were hoping for, but in the long run I would be thankful that the horse didn't continue to suffer. Additionally he was not quickly patched together and run at a low level while in some amount of pain.

                                        For all you can say about bad trainers and bad choices that lead to these moments, at least these people and their vet were smart enough that they went with the only option out there for him, the gift of freedom from lifelong pain.

                                        Not all are so lucky.

                                        ~Emily
                                        Well, Iguazu did drop quickly from MSW after managing partner was told he needed more time - to Maiden Claimers$35k? then $25k then $10k (or he would have been dropped into $7500 if that had come up first). So, no, I am livid that managing partner, who tries to promote himself as an altruistic partnership, instead kept running the horse back so we "wouldn't have to pay cash calls." To me, it was obvious he should have been stopped earlier.
                                        But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

                                        Comment

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