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Tying up in 3YO filly - tips, advice?

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  • Tying up in 3YO filly - tips, advice?

    We just got back a 3YO filly from the track who ties up. She was doing fine jogging in the barn, but began to tie up when she started training on the track. Trainer says it's worst when she's in season. She had the same problem last year. She is unraced.

    Do you have any recommendations (medication, nutritional, exercise-related, or?) to get her past this? She does have some talent but the owners are not going to go to extremes (ie $1000/month Dantrium which is not 100% effective) The trainer is not particularly hopeful that we can turn this around; I hope we can prove him wrong!
    It's a uterus, not a clown car. - Sayyedati

  • #2
    Try adding a Vit E and Selenium additive such as Mega Sel. We had one filly that tied up horribly and switched her to a high protein low carb feed. I can't remember the name off the top of my head. I ended up galloping the filly in a quarter sheet year round. We would tack, give her a couple turns around the barn at the walk and then I would jog to the track, gallop and jog back. As soon as I got in the stall I would jump off and the groom would swing a cooler on her and start walking with tack still on. Then after 10 minutes or so we would pull tack and keep walking.
    Tying up is the build up of lactic acid created by anaerobic exercise where sugars are burned after the oxygen is gone as opposed to aerobic exercise, where oxygen is used. Check and see what electrolyte she is on as most are sucrose based. I like Summer Games or the old stand by of baking soda and lite salt. Doesn't have everything, but still better than a sucrose or dextrose based product. You want to get as much sugar/carbs as possible out of her diet. Good luck
    Originally posted by The Saddle
    Perhaps I need my flocking adjusted.

    Comment


    • #3
      This is a thread now running on Horse Care....

      http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=294550

      Hoping all the mares/fillies get tie up resolved!

      Comment


      • #4
        Have the Se levels checked before you add it.. Also, RER is something to look up...good luck
        Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
        Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
        "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"

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        • #5
          My personal riding mare was a tie up job on the track too. Nerves, carbs, strong heat cycles, you name it. When we bought her she came with a bottle of regumate. Seconding Vit E and Selenium if levels indicate it is appropriate. We ditched all sweet feeds on our horses years ago. The ones use to their crack fix would take a day to a few to adjust to the new diet, but every one of them was nickering for their pellets just as loud as they were for molasses globbed feed, and it kept bugs down in the summer. She did miles of jogging the wrong way, only turning the right way to gallop out strong or breeze because fighting her to stay slower was another way to tie her up. Keep them hydrated, ours are on electrolytes all the time in their water, especially if they are nervous or have a history of tying up.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rustbreeches View Post
            ...or the old stand by of baking soda and lite salt.
            Would this have any possibility of testing positive on a milkshake test?
            Dee
            Founder of the I LOFF my worrywart TB clique!
            Official member of the "I Sing Silly Songs to My Animals!" Clique
            http://wilddiamondintherough.blogspot.ca/

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            • #7
              Actually the whole Lactaid Acid thing has been proven false. It has more to do with the release of Calcium in and out of the cells.

              What is her diet? A low carb/starch diet is best, and no Alfalfa.

              There is a good feed out there called Re-Leve, I also like Peak Performance Tie Free as a supplement, although it may test now, just double check!

              Having a horse that ties up train early will help relieve stress. Turnout if possible is also great, I know it's hard to do at the track though.

              A cc of Ace before training is also beneficial, but of course you have to stop before race day.

              Comment


              • #8
                Dr. Valentine, DVM, has been doing research on EPSM, a congenital muscle-wasting disease that has a high relationship with tying up. According to "The Horse" magazine, there is now a simple genetic test that can show whether your horse has this.

                Dr. Valentine's website and a quote from that site about tying up follows, with boldface added by me:
                http://www.ruralheritage.com/vet_cli...mlookalike.htm

                Tying Up
                The exact causes of tying up (known in draft horses as "Monday morning disease") have yet to be determined, and horses do tie up for reasons unrelated to EPSM. To date, however, examination of muscle biopsies from horses that have tied up, and of diet change in affected horses, indicate that EPSM may be a more common cause of tying up than was previously thought. We have not yet seen a muscle biopsy from a horse that was brought to us for difficult-to-treat tying up that did not show evidence of EPSM.

                Any horse that ties up—even if it occurs while an unconditioned horse is being conditioned—should be suspected of having an underlying metabolic problem. EPSM horses may also have decreased blood levels of selenium, but these horses still can have problems, even when selenium levels are corrected. Some EPSM horses have had persistently low selenium levels, even when supplemented at high levels or being given injections. This is not surprising, as selenium needs are greatly increased with exercise or any muscular damage. Selenium levels generally return to normal following diet change for EPSM.

                Horse

                Beth A. Valentine, DVM, PhD, is involved with EPSM research and other veterinary matters at the College of Veterinary Medicine, Oregon State University.
                "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina

                Comment


                • #9
                  She probably doesn't want to be a racehorse and may not be meant to be a racehorse. What is her race record?

                  Please give her a nice home with plenty of TLC and please do not breed her.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Friends of mine who train a filly who tied up badly turn her out for a couple of hours every morning before they train. No drugs, supplements, etc., and iot worked for her, and they tried everything. She has stopped tying up completely, but she is VERY active in turnout! Galloping, but not a nervous "let me in" kind of activity, just like she is letting off steam.

                    That is how I found out, because I saw her one morning at the training center just having a great old time out in her paddock, and asked who she was.

                    It kind of makes sense...and would be hard to mimic at the racetrack, unless the trainer had a situation where he had a round pen...

                    Worth trying--and best of all! No drugs, no guesswork on the supplements, etc.
                    Turning For Home, Inc.
                    Philadelphia Park Racehorse Retirement Program
                    www.patha.org
                    turningforhome@patha.org

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Taking away alfalfa and beet pulp helps too. I second the turn out if you can. My show mare used to tie up even if I jogged her. Once she got a few hours of turn out she stopped. Now that she's retired and out on full turn out she has never had any issues. I've heard good things about Re-Leve feed as well but have never tried it.
                      RIP Spider Murphy 4/20/02 - 10/31/10

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                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Update, we brought this filly home for about 5 weeks and then sent her back to the track about 3 weeks ago. She is on a tie-up supplement and some sort of supplement to help with her cycles (her trainer calls it "the period stuff.")

                        Knock on wood, SHE HAS NOT TIED UP SINCE SHE WENT BACK. Hasn't worked yet, but that should come before too long...
                        It's a uterus, not a clown car. - Sayyedati

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Acertainsmile View Post
                          Actually the whole Lactaid Acid thing has been proven false. It has more to do with the release of Calcium in and out of the cells.

                          What is her diet? A low carb/starch diet is best, and no Alfalfa.

                          There is a good feed out there called Re-Leve, I also like Peak Performance Tie Free as a supplement, although it may test now, just double check!

                          Having a horse that ties up train early will help relieve stress. Turnout if possible is also great, I know it's hard to do at the track though.

                          A cc of Ace before training is also beneficial, but of course you have to stop before race day.
                          I would absolutely not recommend anyone give a sedative prior to training as a regimen for preventing anything. Address the possible imbalances and nutritonal defeciencies or overloads, it is also good policy as one poster addressed the way to cool down and stress relief since that does enhance the tightening of muscles; in conjunction with the addressing the management of the nutritional regimen.
                          "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rodawn
                            You can also support her thyroid a bit with the addition of kelp. I found a low-starch diet worked the most effectively for my warmblood who had chronic tie up. Carbs are notorious for increasing tying up. You can get a specific pellet that is low-starch. I found, between the kelp and the pellet, it brought tremendous relief to my gelding who could hardly move without some muscle freaking out whether it was his neck, across his back, or across his rump. The worst time he had was when his whole hindend froze up. It was 2 weeks before his urine finally cleared, but he never moved the same afterwards. The damage was permanent.

                            Once we added the kelp, the spasms stopped permanently.

                            Kelp contains a bit of iodine, but not enough to get toxic, but it is tremendous for helping the pituitary gland regulate all of the hormones the run through the body especially the thyroid. Hormones also affect the muscles, etc. Plus, kelp is okay in competition.
                            Thank you for this, very, very interesting.
                            "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Perhaps I should not EVEN be posting, but I have to 'cause it's such a good update.

                              Filly had her first work last week - very slow and easy.

                              Filly had her second work today - and it was a bullet.

                              Have not spoken with trainer today, so I'm not sure how she came back, but with this horse, no news has seemed to be good news.
                              It's a uterus, not a clown car. - Sayyedati

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Great news that she's doing well!
                                www.laurienberenson.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Late to the party, but we had a three year old who would tie up as well. We put her on Regumate for 6 months and she never had another problem. She eventually outgrew it.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Whoo hoo filly! Nice news, Slew.

                                    The kelp thing is interesting. I've had former tie up nutter on Source since she came off the track (kelp/iodine micronutrient suppliment) three years ago. Any studies I could read out there on this?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Calamber View Post
                                      I would absolutely not recommend anyone give a sedative prior to training as a regimen for preventing anything. Address the possible imbalances and nutritonal defeciencies or overloads, it is also good policy as one poster addressed the way to cool down and stress relief since that does enhance the tightening of muscles; in conjunction with the addressing the management of the nutritional regimen.
                                      Just curious as to why? Plenty of horses train with an ace pill...(probably alot more than you think).

                                      And FWIW, I did address the imbalances, sometimes even when you change that there can still be mental issues.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Acertainsmile View Post
                                        Just curious as to why? Plenty of horses train with an ace pill...(probably alot more than you think).

                                        And FWIW, I did address the imbalances, sometimes even when you change that there can still be mental issues.
                                        Plenty of people do plenty of crazy things, does not mean it a good thing. I think they used to call them needle trainers, I guess now they would just be called pill poppers.

                                        Seriously, because they are not quite all there and I do not, would not and will not put other people, horses, riders, etc. at risk. Maybe because it is more challenging to me and I just plain learn more when I address management issues with the particular animal than just reaching for the drugs. It is how I do and would do if I were still training. Horses and people on drugs and other "things" are one of the many reasons I am no longer at the race track so no, not surprised that there are "more than I think". I already think racing is looped out on drugs so no, I am not delusional about it anymore. I remember when I got into racing, if you had told me that even 1% of the horses trained on drugs I would have told you that was a fabrication. Then I grew up and learned there were people who would give a horse a 30 day tranquilizer, every new horse that came in the barn, if they were still tense, they would pop an ace cocktail on top of it... every morning.
                                        "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

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