• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Unwritten rules.....

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Unwritten rules.....

    A friend and I were talking about the state of racing today and the subject came up of how the unwritten rules of etiquette between trainers/owners are fading away as big factory type barns become the norm. The level of class is eroding. I can think of two examples, give me a few more...
    1-You don't claim from trainers in your own barn.
    2-You don't claim off the little guy and clean out their barn.

  • #2
    One thing I have noticed these days are certain trainers having grooms do a horse up(legwork) with the same thing every single day. And then there are those barns who are going to even greater extremes by having ALL horses done up with the exact same product every single day.

    Gone are the days of checking each individuals legs and doing the legwork according to what each horse needs done for that particular day.

    Many barns today arent anything other than an assembly line similar to an auto factory. This is what happens when one comes to rely more on vet and needle work and less on horsemanship skills

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by Dahoss View Post
      One thing I have noticed these days are certain trainers having grooms do a horse up(legwork) with the same thing every single day. And then there are those barns who are going to even greater extremes by having ALL horses done up with the exact same product every single day.

      Gone are the days of checking each individuals legs and doing the legwork according to what each horse needs done for that particular day.

      Many barns today arent anything other than an assembly line similar to an auto factory. This is what happens when one comes to rely more on vet and needle work and less on horsemanship skills
      I have seen this. I find it scary when they do the horse up in plastic every day creating heat in a leg when sometimes the horse worked hard and needs heat drawn out.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Dahoss View Post
        One thing I have noticed these days are certain trainers having grooms do a horse up(legwork) with the same thing every single day. And then there are those barns who are going to even greater extremes by having ALL horses done up with the exact same product every single day.

        Gone are the days of checking each individuals legs and doing the legwork according to what each horse needs done for that particular day.

        Many barns today arent anything other than an assembly line similar to an auto factory. This is what happens when one comes to rely more on vet and needle work and less on horsemanship skills
        Disagree. We are HUGE and yet all horses are checked daily and the individual needs attended to. BUT the basic routine IS the same fr all horses. Grooms aren't geniuses. They are workers. Simple is best

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Blinkers On View Post
          Disagree. We are HUGE and yet all horses are checked daily and the individual needs attended to. BUT the basic routine IS the same fr all horses. Grooms aren't geniuses. They are workers. Simple is best

          Did I say ALL trainers, or did I say "certain" trainers? Check out Matz barn for example. Every horse is done up in fours with Green Cool...everyday.

          And I disagree. Simple isnt best for the horse. Correctly, is best.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sjdressage View Post
            A friend and I were talking about the state of racing today and the subject came up of how the unwritten rules of etiquette between trainers/owners are fading away as big factory type barns become the norm. [/B]
            Maybe I'm simultaneously too close and too far removed from the topic at hand, but I don't see it that way. I don't think "factory barns" are any more dominant today than they were 30 years ago. Big barns have always had the upper hand. And when you run a big barn, no matter it be race horses or show horses, you generally have to streamline your horse care practices for practicality purposes. *shrugs*
            Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dahoss View Post
              Check out Matz barn for example. Every horse is done up in fours with Green Cool...everyday.
              And? It's basically a fancy version of rubbing alcohol which serves to cool and brace the leg. I see nothing wrong with that. I worked for a huge trainer as well, and the only time we strayed from our Green Jelly was to poultice after a breeze. I just don't see the problem there.
              http://poorwomanshowing.blogspot.com/
              R.I.P. Eagles Hill. 4/6/00-12/10/11.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Big?

                I guess it depends on how the management is set up. Good managers/CEO's in the business world know everything. They hire the right people to be an extension of them and communicate well.

                What I mean by a factory barn is when the barn is run on paper with no thought for the individual. Horses are kept together like the guy in a Weekend at Bernies and used up. They'll claim off their next door neighbor with no heads up and off the family who bred and raised their one horse.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dahoss View Post
                  Did I say ALL trainers, or did I say "certain" trainers? Check out Matz barn for example. Every horse is done up in fours with Green Cool...everyday.

                  And I disagree. Simple isnt best for the horse. Correctly, is best.
                  Not when I was there....

                  All horses got 4 wraps.... but that's b/c they very much believe in protecting the key elements needed for success, the legs. Some were sweated, some poulticed, very few in green cool. It was alcohol then.

                  (This was only 5 years ago)

                  And for Michael's grooms, I'd say there was an amazing system of senior grooms who knew that the one little spot of warmth on a suspensory was a problem. All the less experienced grooms knew to ask an elder if there was a question. And I saw a whole bunch of tiny things stay tiny because of quick responses.

                  ~Emily
                  "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I recall working for trainers with a barnfull that rarely checked legs 30 yrs ago, and trainers with a barnfull not that long ago that checked legs everday faithfully. I dont think things have changed that much, there are those that do, and those that dont.

                    As far as claiming horses, I agree it was always an unwritten "rule", however, sometimes it happened. Basically everyone got their feelings hurt, but put on their big boy pants and got over it. There is also the rule that goes like this, "Dont want your horse claimed? Dont run him for a tag, take him home and make him a pet".

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Acertainsmile View Post
                      I recall working for trainers with a barnfull that rarely checked legs 30 yrs ago, and trainers with a barnfull not that long ago that checked legs everday faithfully. I dont think things have changed that much, there are those that do, and those that dont.

                      As far as claiming horses, I agree it was always an unwritten "rule", however, sometimes it happened. Basically everyone got their feelings hurt, but put on their big boy pants and got over it. There is also the rule that goes like this, "Dont want your horse claimed? Dont run him for a tag, take him home and make him a pet".
                      True-I still like the idea of a new term I just heard "waiver claiming" where if your horse is coming off a layoff he is ineligible to be claimed. We need more owners that give a @#$% about their horses in this sport and maybe we should cater to that.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        never-gonna-happen

                        Originally posted by sjdressage View Post
                        True-I still like the idea of a new term I just heard "waiver claiming" where if your horse is coming off a layoff he is ineligible to be claimed. We need more owners that give a @#$% about their horses in this sport and maybe we should cater to that.
                        Oh wouldn't that be lovely!! I could run an allowance horse for 10k claimers after a layup, cash a sure bet, plus be elgible for 10k starters!! What a perfect world that would be!
                        Gotta agree with Acertainsmile-----put on your big boy pants if you want to be in this game. You can still be a trainer who is observant and practical when it comes to running a horse that needs time off.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Florida Fan View Post
                          Oh wouldn't that be lovely!! I could run an allowance horse for 10k claimers after a layup, cash a sure bet, plus be elgible for 10k starters!! What a perfect world that would be!
                          Gotta agree with Acertainsmile-----put on your big boy pants if you want to be in this game. You can still be a trainer who is observant and practical when it comes to running a horse that needs time off.
                          Maybe before you open your sarcastic mouth you should read what it is: http://thoroughbredink.com/ArticleWaiverClaiming.html

                          You couldn't run an allowance horse for 10k.

                          And if "putting on my big boy pants" means I have to become an insensitive jack@!%, no thanks. I am in this sport out of respect for the horse. Yes, it would be easier if I didn't care and I would look cooler like a "big boy" but it's not me.

                          So, if I'm an owner, in your world, I should skip doing the surgery or laying up the horse because it doesn't make sense if someone is going to claim him if I put him where he belongs first time back. If you do the right thing for the horse, you are wasting your money.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sorry that I came across so "sarcastic" as you say,but I sort of got tired ofdealing with owners who wanted "the perfect world" for their situation. As you don't know me, I will tell you that I had runners at the racetrack from Arizona to S.Florida, for 25 years, having 20 to 25 head at Finger Lakes, and 10 - 15 at Calder, Gulfstream. And, anyone that knew me would tell you that I never hesitated to lay a horse up. And, for usually longer than he needed, as I felt if an owner didn't want to give some time off---he could move the horses. I owned horses myself as well, but mostly a public stable. AND--I have layed them off and had a few claimed first out even though I ran them for a bit more than they were worth in a lot of cases.
                            I did plenty of surgery---although the horses in my care for any length of time were stopped before they needed surgery. Everyone has their opinions on racing--but I think it takes being in it at least a decade to really decipher what is good for the general industry.
                            Last edited by Florida Fan; Feb. 20, 2011, 09:54 AM. Reason: needed to continue

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Sucked didn't it. Probably cost you money too.

                              It is very sad when some people in the industry try to make others look stupid (put on your big boy pants) for caring about the horses. You may have chosen to become hardened from dealing with it for years but the day I don't care is the day I quit!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Interesting article---

                                Interesting article though--sort of like an "optional claim"---and actually does not change much...

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I never hesitated to do what was best for the horse. Claiming is part of the game---I certainly claimed my share too! So--it is the overall income of the operation that makes/loses money....not the loss/gain of one horse.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Maybe it is just different out west here ( I am a midwest transplant), but what happened to you don't walk into someone else's shedrow? I have seen my shedrow look like a city sidewalk some days, by people I have never seen, and it appears to be the norm out here In the midwest it is a major no-no. If I stop by a friend's shedrow, even now out here, I will stand at the edge of the aisle and holler to them, not just saunter down their stalls.

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X