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Maximum Sercurity and Stage 1 Lamness in ALL 4 limbs, feltlocks, hocks, gaskins -- Why is this okay with racing industry

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  • Maximum Sercurity and Stage 1 Lamness in ALL 4 limbs, feltlocks, hocks, gaskins -- Why is this okay with racing industry

    Maximum Security report is posted on the Bloodhorse they found him to have stage 1 lameness in all 4 limbs with bone bruising on ALL 4 limbs... why is this no big deal to the racing industry. I gave my 25 yr old mare off a month after a bad showing job left her sore because she was cut too short. I get it, they would just dope him up on bute, and keep working him. This seems to me that this was a potential problem progress. Why don't they just retire the horse already?
    Last edited by penelopeandthecats@gmail.com; Mar. 22, 2020, 08:46 PM.

  • #2
    Because they only want money.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
      Because they only want money.
      Not everyone.
      www.laurienberenson.com

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Lame is lame. Tell me ...when is it okay to work a horse with structural lameness?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by penelopeandthecats@gmail.com View Post
          Maximum Security report is posted on the Bloodhorse they found him to have stage 1 lameness in all 4 limbs with bone bruising on ALL 4 limbs... why is this no big deal to the racing industry. I gave my 25 yr old mare off a month after a bad showing job left her sore because she was cut too short. I get it, they would just dope him up on bute, and keep working him. This seems to me that this was a fraction in progress. Why don't they just retire the horse already?
          The Wests are not the best owners horseracing has to offer. Considering their past history, I wouldn't necessarily expect them to act with a horse's best interest in mind. (Gee, there's nobody like that in other high level horse sports. ) It has been recommended that the horse take time off from training and racing. He's already been off for a month. We'll see what they do next.

          The Wests do not speak or act for all of racing.

          Dr. Bramlage' report said:
          Bramlage's report determined that Maximum Security showed a grade 1 of 5 lameness in both front legs and both hind legs when jogged in a circle. Grade 1 lameness is difficult to observe and not consistently apparent, according to the American Association of Equine Practitioners. The colt was sound when jogged on a straight line.
          He also said:
          "I can find nothing seriously wrong with him. If you were not going through him with a detailed exam you would not see any issues," Bramlage wrote in his prognosis...no lameness when he is jogged in a straight line, he is perfectly symetrical and fluid in his motion.


          Frankly that does sound like no big deal to me. Dr. Bramlage is the #1 Best Lameness vet in the United States and he went over the horse with a fine tooth comb. To most local vets, Maximum Security probably would have appeared sound.

          Perhaps you want a round of applause for giving your 25 year old horse a month off when she was sore. Some might argue she's the one who should be retired.

          www.laurienberenson.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by penelopeandthecats@gmail.com View Post
            Lame is lame. Tell me ...when is it okay to work a horse with structural lameness?
            No, actually, not all "lameness" is the same.

            Again from the article:
            Grade 1 lameness is difficult to observe and not consistently apparent, according to the American Association of Equine Practitioners. The colt was sound when jogged on a straight line.
            How many vets did you have look at your 25 year old mare before you put her back into work after she was lame?
            www.laurienberenson.com

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            • #7
              Even if MS isn't lame or showing signs of grade 1 lameness, he STILL needs a good bit of time off to HEAL!

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                "Perhaps you want a round of applause for giving your 25-year-old horse a month off when she was sore. Some might argue she's the one who should be retired."

                When she wants to she will retire. She went crazy stall walking and kicking the stall walls this winter when she was retired when I took a barn mate out. She would run around like crazy and run circles in the pasture, she would stare over pasture fence into the riding ring,.. she would tag along when I got out someone else from the pasture and left her.

                So what type of work does she do? Beginner lessons for 5-6 yrs at a walk, and when I ride her I'll put on her dressage saddle and we will do a lot of stretching, walk-trot transitions, and go for a trail ride. It is not unusual to ride aged dressage horses as they are "school teachers," of the horse industry. Exercise is good for all and maintains health mental and physical health, she is sound with no signs of lameness, and in her case, she enjoys having something to do. Any questions??? Yes, I a VERY PROUD of how I have taken care of her... I have had her for 25 yrs!!!. Can you say the same?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ok, and Maximum Security has had a month off and will have more time off. What else do you suggest they do tiger than retirement?

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    "How many vets did you have look at your 25-year-old mare before you put her back into work after she was lame?"

                    Her own personal vet came out... the vet that has known her for 15 years. Although I believe that I could tell when she was lame. I had the vet clear her to work due to her age... and the fact that she might hide signs of lameness. . I am assuming that you would have done the same? I have had this horse for 25 years... trust me I won't just be dumping her off or be selling her when I want a "newer model."

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      No, actually, not all "lameness" is the same.

                      I disagree... but lameness means that the horse should not be working...until sound. I believe that is a given for ALL lameness.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by penelopeandthecats@gmail.com View Post
                        "Perhaps you want a round of applause for giving your 25-year-old horse a month off when she was sore. Some might argue she's the one who should be retired."

                        When she wants to she will retire. She went crazy stall walking and kicking the stall walls this winter when she was retired when I took a barn mate out. She would run around like crazy and run circles in the pasture, she would stare over pasture fence into the riding ring,.. she would tag along when I got out someone else from the pasture and left her.

                        So what type of work does she do? Beginner lessons for 5-6 yrs at a walk, and when I ride her I'll put on her dressage saddle and we will do a lot of stretching, walk-trot transitions, and go for a trail ride. It is not unusual to ride aged dressage horses as they are "school teachers," of the horse industry. Exercise is good for all and maintains health mental and physical health, she is sound with no signs of lameness, and in her case, she enjoys having something to do. Any questions??? Yes, I a VERY PROUD of how I have taken care of her... I have had her for 25 yrs!!!. Can you say the same?
                        I can. My horses are dressage horses. They do not compete at the highest levels of their sport, as Maximum Security has. Think of him as an elite human Olympic athlete. Do you think that they compete without any pain? Do you think that their bodies do not show any wear and tear? Do you think that they do not make they choice to keep training and competing? You said your horse doesn't want to be retired? That's great that you are paying attention. I am thinking MS feels the same way- but, they'll let Baffert figure that out, next.

                        There is no question that some bad, rotten and wrong things have happened recently in the world of Thoroughbred Racing. But this colt, after a serious, arduous campaign, and winning at the International level, simply needs a rest. That's not a surprise. And, he is going to get one.

                        The best lameness Vet in the USA just found him to be a one out of five. You wouldn't have even noticed that he was **off**. I mean you, OP. I think that it is wonderful that you are taking great care of your older horse. Brava! But, don't compare your horses level of work to these horses. That's simply foolhardy. And trying. And nauseating.

                        I'm going to go and feed my oldies some carrots, now. They are 23 and 24. Young 'uns!!
                        When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                        www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                        http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I hate to tell you, most horses are 1 out of 5 lame. There are extremely few completely sounds horses. I was talking to a vet who has been practicing for over 40 years. Do you know how many completely sound horses she has seen in her career? 2
                          Jacobson's Saddlery, LLC
                          www.thesaddlefits.com
                          Society of Master Saddlers Qualified Fitter

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                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            "Do you think that they do not make the choice to keep training and competing? I am thinking MS feels the same way- but, they'll let Baffert figure that out, next."

                            I'm assuming that you are not referring to Servius... after all, FDA, CIA, and multiple statesl just demonstrated that he was busy giving ALL of his horses unapproved new drugs and illegal new drugs to improve performance and serve as pain killers. how is that looking out for the horse?

                            I agree that they " made the choice to keep training and competing," they did so on horses that most likely were lame and needed to be Given a rest...., of course, if you are doping them up on a DAILY basis lameness wouldn't be apparent.

                            I wouldn't use Baffert as an example of racing's best... remember the Justify scandal of last year?

                            Congrats and welcome to the "older guys" club.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Maybe Maximum Security will retire when he's ready to retire.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Nope. I said and meant Baffert. He'll be the new trainer for MS.

                                The **they** that I referred to, if you read my post, were Olympic level HUMAN athletes. I am not sure that they were doped on a daily basis, but their lameness would probably have been diagnosed in different ways. By an MD. Not a Vet.

                                I didn't say that Baffert was the **best**. I just said he would be the next trainer for MS. Please, keep up.

                                My first horse, who died at 26, is buried here on my farm. She led the wagon train into Valley Forge Park in 1976. This is not my first rodeo, and I do not tolerate cruelty to horses, nor do I suffer fools gladly.

                                Welcome.
                                When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                                www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                                http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  "I didn't say that Baffert was the **best**. I just said he would be the next trainer for MS. Please, keep up." I know exactly what I said and know exactly what mean. I am not sure he is always on the horse's side either.

                                  [edit]
                                  Last edited by Moderator 1; Mar. 23, 2020, 11:54 AM. Reason: political commentary

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by penelopeandthecats@gmail.com View Post
                                    "I didn't say that Baffert was the **best**. I just said he would be the next trainer for MS. Please, keep up." I know exactly what I said and know exactly what mean. I am not sure he is always on the horse's side either.

                                    [edit]
                                    Well, rule one on this BB is no political posts. So, as delightful as your suggestion may be, you need to carefully consider how many posts you want to make before the moderators ban you.

                                    I have no idea if Baffert is always on the horses side. I know that he isn't stupid enough to allow anyone to believe that he isn't.

                                    There isn't respectful spin on anything that you have posted. You parachuted in here, and started with a bunch of blather comparing your horse to MS. Not really a great analogy to draw. You might want to start again....
                                    Last edited by Moderator 1; Mar. 23, 2020, 11:54 AM.
                                    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                                    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                                    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      "Maybe Maximum Security will retire when he's ready to retire. He is getting a break for now.."

                                      . I'm just curious how he will run without all the drugs. Either fantastically because he is a really nice horse, or up to his full capacity whatever that may be, without the drugs as he is a very nice horse.

                                      "You parachuted in here, and started with a bunch of blather comparing your horse to MS. Not really a great analogy to draw. You might want to start again...."

                                      I NEVER said my horse was MS however, I did say however, I wouldn't work a lame horse. Sorry if you misunderstood my post, That was not my intention.

                                      There is no doubt in mind that the trainer of MS knew what they were doing. Otherwise, why would they give a horse a painkiller daily? My point... instead of resting that horse as they should have, they were running him into the ground...

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by penelopeandthecats@gmail.com View Post
                                        "Maybe Maximum Security will retire when he's ready to retire. He is getting a break for now.."

                                        . I'm just curious how he will run without all the drugs. Either fantastically because he is a really nice horse, or up to his full capacity whatever that may be, without the drugs as he is a very nice horse.

                                        "You parachuted in here, and started with a bunch of blather comparing your horse to MS. Not really a great analogy to draw. You might want to start again...."

                                        I NEVER said my horse was MS however, I did say however, I wouldn't work a lame horse. Sorry if you misunderstood my post, That was not my intention.

                                        There is no doubt in mind that the trainer of MS knew what they were doing. Otherwise, why would they give a horse a painkiller daily? My point... instead of resting that horse as they should have, they were running him into the ground...
                                        Are you sure that what the horses were being juiced with would be defined as a **painkiller**?
                                        When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                                        www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                                        http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

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