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Triple Crown 2020

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    Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post
    LaurieB thanks. The bonus clauses, which I didn't even think about, make sense in allowing a 'price' now based on past performance while covering future performance or lack thereof (ie, so if Tiz the Law, for some reason, stops running at least there is base price.)

    Another didn't realize (and assumed maybe not insurable) that race horses could be insured, while racing, for loss of use (I'm assuming) as well as mortality. Fertility would make sense as I somewhere got the impression that coverage would need to be in place prior to actually breeding (but why fertility now vs upon retirement while he's on the van to Ashford?)
    Fertility coverage that Ashford will have purchased now because they've bought his breeding rights and they were, no doubt, a substantial investment.
    When he's done racing and goes to Ashford/Coolmore, if he is not fertile it will be their problem.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post
      LaurieB thanks. The bonus clauses, which I didn't even think about, make sense in allowing a 'price' now based on past performance while covering future performance or lack thereof (ie, so if Tiz the Law, for some reason, stops running at least there is base price.)

      Another didn't realize (and assumed maybe not insurable) that race horses could be insured, while racing, for loss of use (I'm assuming) as well as mortality. Fertility would make sense as I somewhere got the impression that coverage would need to be in place prior to actually breeding (but why fertility now vs upon retirement while he's on the van to Ashford?)
      Last time I checked race horse mortality rates were 5.6% of their value so oftentimes people must choose to cover only a portion of the horse’s value as the premium is just too costly. You can not get major medical on a race horse, not sure about loss of use although loss of use is astronomical anyway so most people don’t opt for it regardless. The fertility insurance could be the farm’s sort of mortality as a dead horse is definitely not breeding any mares but that is just a guess on my part.
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        Honor A. P. will stand at stud at Lane's End upon his retirement.

        It's amazing how quickly this 3yo crop's stallion prospects are being grabbed up.
        www.laurienberenson.com

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          Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post
          LaurieB thanks. The bonus clauses, which I didn't even think about, make sense in allowing a 'price' now based on past performance while covering future performance or lack thereof (ie, so if Tiz the Law, for some reason, stops running at least there is base price.)

          Another didn't realize (and assumed maybe not insurable) that race horses could be insured, while racing, for loss of use (I'm assuming) as well as mortality. Fertility would make sense as I somewhere got the impression that coverage would need to be in place prior to actually breeding (but why fertility now vs upon retirement while he's on the van to Ashford?)
          The insurance companies we used didn't offer loss of use or medical insurance on racehorses, just mortality. I'm not sure any equine insurance companies will cover those things. (Fertility is a totally different issue.)

          The rates to insurance for mortality were 7% of value on a gelding, 6% on a colt or stallion, and 5% on a filly or mare. So for a Derby prospect who might conservatively be valued at 20M, the insurance cost is 1.2M a year.
          www.laurienberenson.com

          Comment


            LaurieB Thank you again

            Interesting that geldings are the most expensive to insure (although definitely overall less in value since purse money stops when the gelding retires).

            So both Coolmore and Sackatoga could insure for mortality(?) but why would Coolmore spend on fertility until the horse stepped on the retirement van?

            As for snapping up 3YOs... wonder how much in play is the fact that the TC is topsy turvy, out of order and later in the year. In years past, could watch the up-and-comers through the Belmont (regardless of winning TC or not) and see how the colts perform... maybe wait until mid-summer but many 3YO race opportunities already at the mid-summer point. Loosing a few months of derby prep racing as well as other races either being dropped or out of order or plain out changed (think distance in the Belmont) might be putting some pressure on stud farms to make decisions now without really knowing what they've got. I dunno (would be my though process but then again, I'm not in the business other that watching it on TV )
            Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth, And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; John Gilliespie Magee, Jr

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              Originally posted by danceronice View Post
              This might actually the only year where you could go and NOT be smashed cheek to jowl and wouldn't have to worry about finding a place to sit.
              My question would be even if you could attend this year, would you go?

              I don't think I would even if I had a guaranteed admission ticket of some kind.
              Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth, And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; John Gilliespie Magee, Jr

              Comment


                Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post
                LaurieB Thank you again

                Interesting that geldings are the most expensive to insure (although definitely overall less in value since purse money stops when the gelding retires).

                So both Coolmore and Sackatoga could insure for mortality(?) but why would Coolmore spend on fertility until the horse stepped on the retirement van?

                As for snapping up 3YOs... wonder how much in play is the fact that the TC is topsy turvy, out of order and later in the year. In years past, could watch the up-and-comers through the Belmont (regardless of winning TC or not) and see how the colts perform... maybe wait until mid-summer but many 3YO race opportunities already at the mid-summer point. Loosing a few months of derby prep racing as well as other races either being dropped or out of order or plain out changed (think distance in the Belmont) might be putting some pressure on stud farms to make decisions now without really knowing what they've got. I dunno (would be my though process but then again, I'm not in the business other that watching it on TV )
                They would insure now because they have made the investment now. I'd think that they'd feel a little vulnerable waiting to insure fertility having spent what is surely a lot of money for the rights. It would be interesting to know how/if the fertility insurance payment is worked into the breeding rights transaction. I don't know how Coolmore runs their business, but if they use bank loans I am certain the bank would require insurance in place as a condition of the loan.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post

                  My question would be even if you could attend this year, would you go?

                  I don't think I would even if I had a guaranteed admission ticket of some kind.
                  This is the quandary I am having with the Breeders Cup. I was gifted return airfare, Keeneland box seats and hotel accommodations... and was hoping that the November timing would work. But watching the way things are going and how incredible stupid some people can be... I am no longer sure. If BC is held and spectators are allowed... this would be my one chance. My bucket list racing trip and enjoying other things in KY as well. My first holiday (even if only for a few days) in years.

                  BUT.



                  Comment


                    Originally posted by skydy View Post

                    They would insure now because they have made the investment now. I'd think that they'd feel a little vulnerable waiting to insure fertility having spent what is surely a lot of money for the rights. It would be interesting to know how/if the fertility insurance payment is worked into the breeding rights transaction. I don't know how Coolmore runs their business, but if they use bank loans I am certain the bank would require insurance in place as a condition of the loan.
                    I thought (which, for me can be dangerous ) that fertility insurance had to be acquired prior to covering the first mare and learning if the stallion is fertile or not. If that is the case, why now vs waiting? I would assume (bad word, I know) that in the contract there is language covering events such as gelding (who would do that to a high value station? I can see applying now perhaps if the premium is due only prior to stallion being collected/bred the first time?? What do I know (about this, next to nothing )
                    Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth, And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; John Gilliespie Magee, Jr

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post

                      I thought (which, for me can be dangerous ) that fertility insurance had to be acquired prior to covering the first mare and learning if the stallion is fertile or not. If that is the case, why now vs waiting? I would assume (bad word, I know) that in the contract there is language covering events such as gelding (who would do that to a high value station? I can see applying now perhaps if the premium is due only prior to stallion being collected/bred the first time?? What do I know (about this, next to nothing )
                      I'm guessing as well , but I would expect the bank would require the horse to be insured now as a condition of financing the breeding rights, so since the breeding rights have been acquired and paid for (at least in some part) the bank would have required insurance now. Coolmore may deal with millions in cash for all I know, but I think that would be an usual business practice.

                      You are correct that the payment has to be received before the horse is bred or fertility tested.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post

                        My question would be even if you could attend this year, would you go?

                        I don't think I would even if I had a guaranteed admission ticket of some kind.
                        Sure. In a REGULAR year I might not, as I can't see paying for the mob experience. This might be the one time when it's not a total zoo. Of course I have to work Labor Day weekend so the point is moot.
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                          Originally posted by danceronice View Post

                          Sure. In a REGULAR year I might not, as I can't see paying for the mob experience. This might be the one time when it's not a total zoo. Of course I have to work Labor Day weekend so the point is moot.
                          I don't want to turn this into a COVID thread, as there are certainly enough of those on other forums.

                          I always wanted to go to the Derby, mob experience or not. Just once. Bucket list. (Actually, my dream is to buy a small share of a horse who somehow turns out to be a contender, and go as an owner--if you are going to dream, dream BIG.)

                          However, the way the positive cases are going up nationwide, there is no way I would go to the Derby this year. I seriously doubt the ability of the track to control the crowds.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Maythehorsebewithme View Post
                            However, the way the positive cases are going up nationwide, there is no way I would go to the Derby this year. I seriously doubt the ability of the track to control the crowds.
                            First, yup enough other COVID threads...

                            I'd be heartbroken to have something on my bucket list, regardless of what it was, and then having to make a tough decision about attending and hoping or just staying home. I think we all know TV coverage is better than in-person but it's not the same as being there.

                            A bit facing a related decision. Last year NASCAR moved the season-ender Championship races from Homestead FL to Phoenix AZ. I have season tickets to the track here (Phoenix). I was totally excited to get to attend the Championship series of races. Now, I just don't know. November is still 4 1/2 months away but I just don't know.
                            Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth, And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; John Gilliespie Magee, Jr

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Maythehorsebewithme View Post

                              I don't want to turn this into a COVID thread, as there are certainly enough of those on other forums.

                              I always wanted to go to the Derby, mob experience or not. Just once. Bucket list. (Actually, my dream is to buy a small share of a horse who somehow turns out to be a contender, and go as an owner--if you are going to dream, dream BIG.)

                              However, the way the positive cases are going up nationwide, there is no way I would go to the Derby this year. I seriously doubt the ability of the track to control the crowds.
                              Perhaps snaffle would sell you a share of her racehorse?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Maythehorsebewithme View Post

                                I don't want to turn this into a COVID thread, as there are certainly enough of those on other forums.

                                I always wanted to go to the Derby, mob experience or not. Just once. Bucket list. (Actually, my dream is to buy a small share of a horse who somehow turns out to be a contender, and go as an owner--if you are going to dream, dream BIG.)

                                However, the way the positive cases are going up nationwide, there is no way I would go to the Derby this year. I seriously doubt the ability of the track to control the crowds.
                                Trust me when I tell you the stress, expense, and frustration of being an owner is...not fun at times. (We got taken off the Derby trail with an injury, though we had points. Should've sent him to Dubai instead of Turfway, he'd probably have liked it better, and yes, it was discussed.) After a year off, he came back only to hurt himself again and get retired three days before the BC Turf. I mean, there's a lot of fun to it (high point being having a HoF jockey WANT to ride your horse), but it can be really, really depressing, too.

                                And I'd go. I'd go on the cruise I was booked on in October if it weren't cancelled. I literally know more people who'd been diagnosed with Stage IV cancer in the last six months than have Covid (which is to say three diagnosed, plus one who'd already been but was deemed terminal who just died a couple days ago.) The only thing I've seen a doctor about is a VERY superficial scratch from a raccoon in a livetrap (ultimately I didn't get the rabies series as it literally didn't break the second layer of skin and there's no endemic raccoon rabies ever reported here, but THAT is scary virus requiring serious thought, what with the 100% fatality rate.) Regular year where there won't be people scared to go and limited sales? Eh...maybe it's that I'm a woman and usually traveling alone, but that's not appealing for a lot of reasons.

                                But we're open again at the winery, though doing everything outside, and we'll likely be back to indoor operations in September or just busier. Illinois people especially are really ready to get out again.
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                                  The Haskell this year includes points for the KD plus Win And You're In for the BC Classic.

                                  Monmouth is also offering a $1M bonus if any horse sweeps the Haskell, KD and BC Classic

                                  33 horses currently nominated including the lady... Swiss Skydiver

                                  No Tiz the Law. Authentic, Basin, Dr Post, Etc Indian, Lebda, Mr Big News, Sole Volante, Tap It To Win among others...
                                  Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth, And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; John Gilliespie Magee, Jr

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                                    Originally posted by skydy View Post

                                    Perhaps snaffle would sell you a share of her racehorse?
                                    I don't own a derby prospect; not sure which prospect you are referring to. But thanks.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post

                                      I don't own a derby prospect; not sure which prospect you are referring to. But thanks.
                                      I was joking.

                                      Comment


                                        Toyota Blue Grass today. Art Collector was much the best but Swiss Skydiver was a very game second. She was on the lead most of the race. Art Collector ran her down in the stretch.

                                        Good race!

                                        Speech took the Ashland which qualified her for the Oaks behind only Swiss Skydiver in points.
                                        Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth, And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; John Gilliespie Magee, Jr

                                        Comment


                                          The Travers: Tiz the Law was awesome!

                                          It will be so weird if he wins the Derby and Preakness. Is he a Triple Crown winner, given the one-turn, mile and a furlong Belmont? Oh well, the Triple Crown is an artificial construct anyway--looking forward to seeing this horse run again!

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